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Critics of Seattle in snow: Shut the hell up

Critics of Seattle in snow: Shut the hell up

Critics of Seattle in snow: Shut the hell up

by Art Thiel

SportsPressNorthwest

Posted on January 21, 2012 at 7:01 PM

Enough.

I've had it.

A Los Angeles Times blog headline this week called us "Snow Wimps." The LA Times?! I will listen to the LA Times when it describes the microclimates on Kim Kardashian's continental derriere. That, it would know.

The incredibly shrinking newspaper has nothing to say to me about Seattle's weather. Especially when a Southland sprinkle sends literally millions of Angelenos into freeway aqua-spasms. TV reporters there hold microphones next to curbs so viewers can hear water running.

Kim Murphy wrote the Times story. She lives in Seattle. She told KUOW radio Thursday that her email in-box has been "severely abused" with critical comments. Good. She has no clue.

You know who has a clue? Me. Not because I'm a Cliff Mass wannabe, or a Jeff Renner stalker. It's because I'm a career sportswriter. Normally the gig isn't good for much besides winning bar bets. But it has sent me on assignment to every metropolitan area in the country that has snow, where I've frequently rented cars in winter.

As a multiple-time winter visitor/driver to New York, Boston, Philly, Buffalo, Toronto, Detroit, Washington, D.C., Chicago, Milwaukee, Green Bay, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Spokane, Pullman and lots of smaller burgs, I will declare my credentials regarding meteorological comparables second to none.

Take it from me: There is no metro area as treacherous as Seattle in snow.

The relative infrequency of these bouts makes it easy to characterize the subsequent mayhem a result of Seattle drivers' fear, inexperience, stupidity, potheadedness or wimphood.

Bah.

No one, from Jimmy Johnson to Danica Patrick to the premier graduate of the Washington State Patrol's hazardous driving course, can navigate the rare conditions that often attend a major snow dump here.

A driver atop Queen Anne Hill, after a typical snow-melt-refreeze-snow cycle as we've seen this week, simply has no chance to get to the bottom of the hill without sideswiping half the parked cars en route. Pure physics, friends. Not driving skill.

No downtown that receives snow is as as hilly as Seattle. Period. The Priniciple of Verticality. There's just too much up here to get down safely.

Obviously, some of the aforementioned cities have hills, but not nearly as many in such tight proximity with so much high-rise business and housing on the slopes. I know. I've seen the other cities. I've spun a 360 on ice in Dallas, gone off a snowbound highway near Green Bay and become trapped by a multi-car collision in Spokane. In all instances, there was no damage to me, my rental car or anyone else's, because flat terrain allowed me and other drivers to drive slowly out of the problem.

Besides the topography, there's the brand of snow -- wet, gloppy flakes known locally as Seattle cement. Rarely is the snow dry enough to drift, as is often often the case in the Midwest, Plains and parts of the Northeast and even Eastern Washington. I remember driving in a semi-blizzard in Salt Lake City where the highway road surface and its edges were plainly visible throughout the white-knuckle, 45-minute drive, thanks to the wind that cleared the dry flakes. Not fun, but manageable.

Wet snow doesn't drift. It gets compacted onto road beds and sidewalks. Plowing and salting helps, but 90 percent of the streets in a metro area as large as Seattle will never see a plow or a salting truck. Seattle cement can only wait for warm rain to wash most of it away.

Which brings up another problem with two intertwined conditions -- relatively mild temperatures and our undying love of trees.

Obviously, all cities have trees. But the density of our arbor canopy, particularly with the abundance of evergreens, means that ice patches can follow patches of bare pavement in chock-a-block fashion for miles. Many of our boulevard and residential-street accidents are caused by little-seen leftovers of ice in the permashade of a Doug fir.

The problem is compounded by the freeze-thaw of snowfalls that typically happen between temperatures of 28 and 34 degrees. In the Midwest, Plains and Northeast, weeks can go by without melt and refreeze, making driving more manageable. As we've seen this week, the mild Pacific Ocean temps keep us guessing among snow, rain, freezing rain and possibly airborne unicorns, orcs and Storm Troopers (or the Yellow Jackets of KING5 news).

And in many northern cities, the possibility of serious winter is a proposition built into the culture from October through mid-May, so spending civic treasure on plows and salt is as fundamental a winter investment there as is a vente soy latte half-caff, sugar-free vanilla, light foam, no whip, extra hot, to other communities.

In a time of shrinking tax revenues, I get why Seattle doesn't armor-up for winter. Or has everyone forgotten last winter's snow-free mildness? While I understand the city's snow removal crew requires more than a retiree with with a push broom, a city, like most people stuck with common sense, tries to prepare for most things knowing they can't afford to prepare for everything.

Every northern city has to deal with bad winter weather and a certain percentage or reckless, foolish or just ignorant drivers. But circumstances nowhere in the lower 48 compare with what sometimes happens in Seattle. If the hardy-har-hars in Los Angeles and elsewhere, including transplants here who often laugh loudest, want to argue, go ahead and take your Lexus to the top of Queen Anne Hill the next time Danger Jim Forman puts on his yellow parka.

I'll meet you at the body shop and you can tell me how it went.

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 75

Jennifer1117 said on January 23, 2012 at 1:58 AM

wow is Art Theil screening these himself. I posted earlier about how he should go back to where he came from and stop whining. It is the transplants who need to stop crying. Back in the eighties we had some wicked storms I remember cruising around in my 68 cougar all over Renton and Maple Valley. Snow never slowed me down especially when I drove right past all the transplants in their fancy rigs in the ditch. I was always amazed at the people who move here and complain about the weather or the ones who would move next to what used to be called S.I.R and then they would complain about the noise. Too many stupid sheep in the world go back to the zoo's you escaped from. You may find something wrong with that statement since sheep used to live in fields. That was before the transplants came now there are no more fields and your stupid kids will soon only be able to see sheep in zoo's.

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btvsrcks said on January 23, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Everyone knows those that call names are covering for whatever inadequacy he/she has. This is something we teach very young children...

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gmabawkbawk71461 said on January 22, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Haven't we all figured out by now that those "Wimpy Seattle Drivers" are all those Los Angeles transplants who've invaded our cities the past 15 years?!

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juliav said on January 22, 2012 at 12:59 PM

I was born and raised in Seattle. Too many drivers in Seattle drive just as bad on slick roads as they do on dry pavement. You people do not know how to handle a vehicle on snow and ice. There's a reason the rest of the world mocks you. A reporter from California may just be living in Bozeman, MT, sending his or her reports back to LA via a laptop computer. Learn to drive or "shut the hell up."

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JohnnyPleasure said on January 22, 2012 at 12:50 PM

JohnnyPleasure avatar

The LA critics are just jealous of Washington's weather.

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remainingreal said on January 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM

LA doesn't know what snow is. Give me a break! Anyone who thinks Kim Murphy is right is obviously from California and has no stinking clue. They think snow is the shavings you get from a snow cone.

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trixterra06 said on January 22, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Boy that Kim Murphy snowball must have hurt huh?! Rest assured Art you'll be pressed again to protect the egos of Seattle the next time a snowstorm hits. The clueless will prevail.

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dividedsky said on January 21, 2012 at 10:10 PM

There is little here I would disagree with Mr. Thiel over. That said, not too long ago I resided in Seattle myself for almost ten years and there are two points I will raise. 1. What's the excuse for Seattlelite's poor driving skills when it rains...in July? 2. Seattlelite's are super hypersensitive to criticism of any kind whatsoever.

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trixterra06 said on January 21, 2012 at 9:36 PM

Ohhh Art got whacked in the head by a snowball and now he's trying to hit back. You'll be writiing another article because when the snow comes again, the inexperienced, stupid, potheads, and wimps, will be bringing there car to Joe's Auto Body shop again. Seattlites never learn!!!

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trixterra06 said on January 21, 2012 at 9:15 PM

Kim Murphy 1, Art Thiel 0

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hsncv said on January 21, 2012 at 7:34 PM

And if the Seattle city doesn't have the means, why with the need for employment can't we have entrepreneurs rigging their 4-wheel drive trucks with snow plows to pitch in. There is a need here...why not work to fill it to everyone's benefit?

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hsncv said on January 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Still, Seattle has 30 snow plows? Washington DC which also has about 500k residents has about 400 pieces of snow equipment...no wonder Seattle can't clear the flats even..The best way to make things better is to realize ones faults and work on them...not complain about others pointing out one's faults. Seattle snow removal leaves a lot to be desired...and it's not all about the hills...I was down on 1st ave and it was ridiculous..

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applmagotqrntine said on January 21, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Waaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa, waaaaaa

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chuckstr76 said on January 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Comments like this from a person where the low temperature get down to 55 degrees...what a looser.

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missgirl510 said on January 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Nicely put, Art.

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musicfreak said on January 21, 2012 at 11:41 AM

I've lived in Salt Lake City during a very rough winter and never missed a day of work from it. This is from a native Seattle area person. My parents (who grew up in Lewiston, ID and Marion, OH) taught all three of their kids how to drive in the snow. That being said, I could barely get down my street on Wednesday, my 15 year old son pushed me most of the way down to the main road that had been plowed, and my car's been parked in my dad's driveway since Wednesday, because I couldn't get down my side street to my house. My dad had to drive me home in his all wheel drive car. LA folks *do* need to shut up, because they haven't a clue.

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MikeLegend said on January 21, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Being someone that grew up and learned to drive in Northern Indiana, I can say that you're slightly wrong on 'dry' snow. In Indiana, getting dry snow is the worst because it covers the roads and blows across making the shoulders hard to see. Wet snow, such as the lake effect, usually melts as it hits the pavement. But I do agree that LA shouldn't judge since they don't even deal with rain hardly. One of those don't judge til you walk in their shoes kinda thing.

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Mingledchime said on January 21, 2012 at 10:39 AM

As one of the life long Seattle-ites who does know how to survive a storm and does know how to safely drive in the snow I always feel a little bit of a sting when commenters lump us all together as morons when it comes to coping with our occassional snow storm. I realize they are rude and don't know any better. I was also taught to consider the source. I have, and won't think about it further.

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raster44 said on January 21, 2012 at 9:46 AM

A few years ago in the Buffalo area we had an October storm that dumped a few feet of wet snow and it paralyzed the area. Tree limbs snapped and blocked roads and downed thousands of power lines. Took a couple of weeks to recover. I was without power for a week. The snow on the streets was an easy job and was gone in a day but repairing the power lines and removing the dangerous branches took almost six months. We had crews from all over the country come in to do the work as locals could not handled the carnage. Almost as bad as a tornado or hurricane except Only a few deaths attributed to the storm. I can sympathize with Seattle residents.

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Billh said on January 21, 2012 at 9:40 AM

As a recent transplant from NY, I can not stop feeling like I won the lottery by having the opportunity to live here, Now that our family is here, we are actively part of the "Seattle sucks" spin to keep this glorious place to ourselves. The only blemish here is the passive/aggressive driving that saturates the roadways. I believe it is that culture that makes some believe that 4x4's can defy ice physics and that tailgating will do something more than get you to the next red light faster. You can't fix stupid in any city,State or country. Overall, I give Seattlites a "B" for their survival of the storm. I spent time in LA, and I give them a "D" for any moment they actually enter their cars. In any case, I say tell all in SoCal how wimpy and uncool it is here. Their turn off to our precious area keeps the hordes out.........

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auburngirl said on January 21, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Well everyones entitled to their own form of ignorance Art don't get to upset about it. I would like to make a comment I think this weather event is a good reminder to folks about being prepared for any Disaster weather or something else. Our power was out for days sure was nice to have a generator and gas barbaque. flashlights and candles extra blankets lots of coco and such.

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vffrwm said on January 21, 2012 at 8:35 AM

Art there is no place I've lived, and I'm probably as traveled as you are, where the "dumb level" of drivers is as high as it is here in the Northwest. It's nothing new, these people were morons on four wheels when I moved here in 1970. The challenge is they have gotten worse. I know that takes a lot of dumb, but they have. I'm sure in large part because this is a melting pot for those looking for the end of the rainbow and we now have a ton of Californicators up here mixed in with midwest and back east folks. So the challenge is you have some people that move here that actually do know how to drive both on dry roads and wet roads but they are soon dumbed down to the level of the masses. Remember we all to some degree become products of our enviroment and thats easy to see here. Want to fix it? Yank parked cars people leave on the road and charge $ 1,000.00 to get it back. No traction devices $ 500 fine and your car impounded, speeding,the regular fine plus a $ 1,000.00 penalty.

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justme57 said on January 21, 2012 at 7:40 AM

I live in Eastern Washington State. In the latest storm, we received nearly 2 feet of snow in the valleys and more in the higher elevations, yet no fanfare was made in regard to our situation. Schools remained open, buses ran on time for the most part and people actually drove their cars to work and did their errands. There are steep hills on my commute, but I planned an alternate route. Almost anyone who lives in this area knows how to drive in winter weather and gets prepared, something that folks in the Seattle area can't seem to manage. They don't budget for snow removal or de-icing equipment which is silly because one storm like this or even a small amount of snow, shuts everything down, and it happens at least once every winter. Some words of advice - use a lower gear in your vehicle, slow down and keep your foot off the brake. To the guy who was videotaped sking behind a moving vehicle? if the driver slammed on his brakes, it would not have been pretty.

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mrat_driss said on January 21, 2012 at 7:20 AM

Right On! Great points!

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rrjarrett said on January 21, 2012 at 5:55 AM

Well said, I was born and raised in the L.A. area and spent 13 years in Seattle Metro area. I now live in the eastern midwest and can say without a doubt that snow in the Seattle city area is unlike anything else.....and someone from So. California has no right to say anything at all, as they rarely, if ever, see snow.... and that I can say from 21 years of personal experience!

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teaellem said on January 20, 2012 at 10:14 PM

1 week of winter. 6 weeks of spring. 1 week of summer. 44 weeks of fall. I love the PNW!

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savvydude2003 said on January 20, 2012 at 10:11 PM

YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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ti3ber said on January 20, 2012 at 9:28 PM

I'll take snow-owls from elsewhere over the Californian transplants, they carry their sense of entitlement and give the drivers here a bad name. You know who they are, they're easy to spot when it rains.

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Mingledchime said on January 20, 2012 at 9:22 PM

@BraveNewWhirled - "...with all the taxes you folks pay, you'd think they could buy some decent snow equipment..." - - - Just what in the heck are you talking about?!? I drove to work each morning this week with no 4 wheel drive or chains and I arrived safe and sound because the plows and salters had been out all night clearing all of the major arterials so they were all bare and wet. If you bothered to look at the SDOT plow map you'd notice that all the major arterials were plowed and cleared about once every 12 to 24 hours - sometimes more often than that. What's more, on my way home this afternoon by a completely different route that included some non major arterials I noticed they had all been plowed and cleared and traffic was moving very well. So, BraveNewWhirled, put your angry political and childish agenda aside and look around you before you type out another silly post for all to read and thereby judge you an idiot.

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rberge said on January 20, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Thank you 1beachperson, I am a transplanted californian. You know, California is a big state and has many areas that are not warm and sunny. It also has some mighty big hill- perhaps you have heard of Mount Whitney? It also has a lot of people who transplanted there from elsewhere. So much so that those of us who were born and raised there (or just raised or just ended up since there were so many military bases) get driven out. Kind of like the snow owls who are invading Washington and elsewhere this year. Five will get you ten that Ms. Murphy is one of those transplants who lived in California for a few years and decided that made her a Californian. Clearly the Seattle newspaperwomen need to get on board and write some articles slamming Angelenos or Fresnoites for not being able to deal with the sun or some other nonsense. First it was Jay Leno in 2000 and now this. Fight Back Seattle!!! and make sure you pick on the So Called Californians, not those of us who really are from

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mishagirl6913440 said on January 20, 2012 at 7:43 PM

I'm so with you on this one! I was born and raised in Detroit. I know how to drive. As a matter of fact, I was SO good I could keep driving while my car stereo and wheels were being jacked! LOL However, when it comes to the snow here, it IS a different animal altogether. It's so nice to see that other people "get it" and I don't have to constantly be on the defensive and explain repeatedly why it is so difficult here. Thank you!

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whatsyurbeef said on January 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Seattle must be one h__ of a city considering how quick the meat heads are to comment negatively about it. It's the same with people the gal or guy who has the most going for them are the ones who the meat heads attempt to chop down to their size as quick as possible. Bunch a slack jaw wannabes.

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ThinkN-Do said on January 20, 2012 at 7:27 PM

Being a midwest native, I can understand those here who do not shovel. It will typically be melted off within 48 hours. This week was quite rare in my 6 winters here. It snowed for 6 days in a row. If it was my business or home, I would shovel regardless, but I am used to shoveling everytime it snows; sometimes 2 or 3 times a day if it's a major accumulation storm. I shoveled my parking space out at my apartment here everyday. I went to work all but one day (not Thursday), I have no studs or chains and no all wheel drive. Plenty of hills in my commute, even on the highway. I suppose I should add that I reside not too far from Lake Washington, toward the north end. Compared to the midwest, people here drive way better, whether it is summer or winter. There are plenty of speed racer types and insane tailgaters, but all in all, Seattle Drivers are above average in my opinion.

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ThinkN-Do said on January 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

For all those who knock Seattle winter snow behaviors . . . . I am a native of the wonderful winters of the midwest. Where it gets well below ZERO, snow drifts 4 - 6 feet high, they have ice storms too and sometimes the snow hangs around for weeks and weeks. Seattle is a different ballgame though. First of all, some of the slickest snow weather is the type we have here most of the time. The right around freezing temp snow. The mist, rain or slow melt creates a nice liquid layer on top and creates some awesome opportunities for maximum slippin and slidin. The hills, definitely a major issue here, especially if you don't have chains or studs. Even then, studs and chains (not as) are shallow and the snow / ice pack is often deeper, therefore even the studs and chains might experience slippage. They will dig in, but aren't stopping you on a dime like dry pavement. When all is considered, the people here drive darn good and those who stay home should be thanked.

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BraveNewWhirled said on January 20, 2012 at 7:05 PM

A State of Emergency is declared because: 1) The State wants money 2) The State wants control 3) There's a REAL emergency (not the case in Western Washington) I'm sorry a few people have died because of the snow and things have been tough, but with all the taxes you folks pay, you'd think they could buy some decent snow equipment. But NNOOOooo... you gotta pay for political pawns, pet projects and bloated benefits. When some bad weather hits, people die and TSHTF, while Gregoire pushes perversion. Oh hey, Chris! One of your checks to a King County Judge bounced. It was about your last election.

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NotFromSeattle said on January 20, 2012 at 6:43 PM

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, Seattle's topography is a challenge, but that's far from the whole story. People in Seattle respond to snow very similarly to how people in LA respond to rain. Having lived in Utah for a long time, you learn to deal with snow. The very first time I ever drove a car it was in a Utah snowstorm. You deal with it and move on rather than hunker down. That is one of the biggest differences between Seattle and places that are used to snow. In Seattle, people hunker down and wait it out. In places used to winter weather, they dig out rather than hunker down. Walk down any street in Seattle today and almost no sidewalks have been shoveled, which doesn't happen in places used to snow. Stand at a bus stop and watch cars drive in Seattle snow. People approach stoplights at a typical speed, not understanding that you shouldn't touch your breaks until you've slowed to a crawl. They don't back way off the cars in front of them, etc.

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DragonRydr said on January 20, 2012 at 5:12 PM

I grew up driving in Vermont's hills and winter harshness, I've driven a semi through Donner Pass in heavy snow, and the "Three Sisters" in Wyoming near whiteout conditions. I know that Seattle hills are tricky, but most of the problems I've seen in King and Pierce county from the snow falls has to do with drivers unfamiliar with winter driving conditions trying to navigate streets when the drivers are unprepared and the streets have not been tended to. EVERY time I've seen someone in this area lose it on a snowy or icy street it is because they went too fast or tried to do too sharp a maneuver. Seattle-ites snow wimps? No, there is enough of a challenge any time you drive in snow and/or ice, but Seattle residents are not prepared, nor trained to deal with what they get here. When I can drive my Saab past a 4X4 that got stuck, that tells me the 4X4 pilot didn't know what he was doing. I've been stuck in the snow once, less than a year after getting my license, over 20 years ago.

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yessir said on January 20, 2012 at 5:10 PM

So where does Kim live... perhaps we need to have snow delivered to her driveway... by the dumptruck load

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Shaniqua said on January 20, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Kim Murphy is an idiot. She knows it. Her family knows it. Her friends know it. And now, millions of people know it.

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shellycantrell said on January 20, 2012 at 4:31 PM

unfortunately they are somewhat right...what i just saw out in my apt.. paking lot..i watched this woman for 20 mins. try to park her car, it was comical to watch. yes i agree there are some places in seattle an surrounding areas you should not try to drive like the steepers hills ect. but all you really need to know driving anywhere that snow has fallen is some common sense an driving skills..such as drive slow enough to be able to stop but don't just stop in a place where you get stuck once you have momentum keep going but slowly really it's not that hard. i don't have alot of experience driving in snow but i have common sense to deal with it. come on people if you can't drive in it DON'T DO IT !!!!!

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islandgirl44 said on January 20, 2012 at 4:22 PM

OK, now I'm ticked off. I'm from New England and I grew up driving in snow. When I moved here, at first I too thought Seattleites were snow wimps. And it's true , no one should attempt to drive down QA ave after a snowstorm unless they are Evil Knievel. That said, I quickly figured out that driving in the snow here is a different animal than NH or Boston. The ice, the hills and lack of practice driving in snow makes it very difficult even for an experienced driver. A lot of Seattle folks are transplants from MIchigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota and they haven't forgotten how to drive. And the freakin power goes out every time it snows!! The power NEVER goes out in NewEngland. Again, it's the heavy wet snow that brings down trees on the wires. I would like to invite Ms Murphy out here to help me start the generator and get the Kerosene heater going, thank you very much. I think Northwesterners are weather stoics, not wimps.

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Chelle_Brunk789 said on January 20, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Thanks Mr. Thiel I live on Whidbey Island, on a hill, We had 11 inches of snow and ice. We often lose our power for days since we are mostly a residential area, thinly populated. We aren't on th e priority list for repairs. We understood this when we moved here. I have MS and have been dealing with it for 20 years. I deal with having a son deployed multiple times. I can cope with pretty much anything, including bad weather.. How I cope with bad weather here is by whimping out. I garage my car, get out the generator and just generally veg out. That's what we DO here. I've lived in Switzerland, where they have support services up the wazoo, and a completely different weather pattern in the winter. Kim Murphy might want to take a science class or two, and possibly linguistics. She might find out that in the different native languages in British Columbia and Alaska that there are hundreds of words describing the snow - each with it's own unique meaning. Chill out, Ms Murph

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ginas said on January 20, 2012 at 3:26 PM

***Applause*** !! Thank you & well said! I thought it was pretty out there for LA Times to have any comment about how Seattle handles the snow considering how frequently they get hit with two feet of snow under 2 inches of ice!

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1beachperson said on January 20, 2012 at 3:24 PM

The only reason we have a problem - aside from the topology - is the transplanted californicators who can't drive when it's dry, or if the temperature goes below 75!

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luna1sierra said on January 20, 2012 at 3:13 PM

well said

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asceptictoo said on January 20, 2012 at 3:08 PM

nice article in rebuttal to the LA Times, as far as drivers go. I have driven 4 wheel drive, all wheel drive, front and rear wheel drive vehicles around in our lovely snow. For those who don't know how to drive, it's fast and furious and watch them spin out on turns or braking from their speed. Me I like to arrive alive and unscathed so when I have driven, 2nd gear, slow and easy even up hills.

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ameso said on January 20, 2012 at 2:46 PM

I think Murphy was spot on.

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aa214 said on January 20, 2012 at 2:36 PM

Well Said!!! just try to be in LA traffic when it starts to rain... they make a big deal out of 1/4 inch!!

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lin1945 said on January 20, 2012 at 2:15 PM

I think Seattleites are smart in dealing with snow. Most of us do not know how to drive safely in it. Businesses and schools understand safety. The one thing I find disturbing is that all three local stations have coverage on all day, some beginning at 4 a.m. and ending at 7 p.m. only to have further coverage between 10 - 11:30 p.m. Maybe they should work together where one station is covering it at any given time. I hated missing some of my favorite daytime programs.

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covzlove said on January 20, 2012 at 2:12 PM

YEAHHHH!!!!!!

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An1c0le said on January 20, 2012 at 2:04 PM

What makes them (People from L.A) think they have the right to call Seattle "Snow whimps".. They don't get snow in L.A. They don't know what it's like to drive in the snow and what the risk of going up and down steep hills in the snow/ice. They don't have any right to throw names. Maybe they should trade in their sunshine and light drizzle in the winter for snow and ice, experience the annoyance and difficulties of driving in the snow and ice. THEN maybe they will get the right to throw names around.

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nwguy69 said on January 20, 2012 at 2:03 PM

You know I am glad KIRO and KOMO are better news cast's and open forums I tried posting here for over an hour and will not post them !! Really come on they were all clean and positive comments and can not understand why they do not get posted ?? Oh well did not really like King5 post's any ways So Dislike coming up !!

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comiccon2010 said on January 20, 2012 at 1:54 PM

its to bad though these idiots who cant drive in the snow move up here. send all these idiot californians back

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itdoesntmatter said on January 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM

Genius. I love it! Thanks for writing this!

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bellevuetom said on January 20, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Here is an article from the LA Times about a rain storm coming to their area: The National Weather Service says rain is expected to move into Southern California on Friday night and make for wet conditions through the weekend. The "relatively weak" storm will move in Friday and gain momentum Saturday morning, said meteorologist Rich Thompson of the National Weather Service office in Oxnard. "It's not a tremendous amount of rainfall," Thompson said, estimating 1 to three fourths of an inch will fall in the central areas and about 1 inch in the mountains. The rain is expected to create hazardous driving conditions. Thompson said drivers in the Antelope Valley should watch out for gusts of wind up to 50 mph. (NOTE THE HAZARDOUS DRIVING COMMENT)

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Michael_Muns9e7 said on January 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM

The problem is ice, not snow. There aren't any secret skills that one can learn to help on drive on ice, especially on unlevel ground.

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IceBerge said on January 20, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Go Art Thiel! Get'em!

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cinnamon22387146 said on January 20, 2012 at 1:09 PM

I'd rather live in Seattle and take the snarky comments in stride than live in LA any day. However, I wonder if our tires were inspected like they do back east, would our ability to get around in the Seattle cement improve any? My stepdaughter just moved to the NW from New Hampshire was surprised to know that tire inspections weren't done out here like they are there. Not to suggest another revenue stream for the state, just curious. New set of tires from last year has helped tremendously in getting around this latest snow blast in my 19 year old Pontiac.

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tugthug said on January 20, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Consider the source and let's move on! Jackwong are you from smell A?

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jackwong said on January 20, 2012 at 12:40 PM

This is what we get for rejecting revenue-raising measures for Washington State. Less service. Simple as that.

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17mars said on January 20, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Thank you, Art! I'm a WA native but I was exiled to L.A. for several years and put up with plenty of wimpy whining about rain while down there. A lot of Angelenos are simply clueless about driving in heavy rain (which is why the freeways turn into slip-n-slides when it pours) I thought that complaint about Seattle was ridiculous. You have answered it perfectly.

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ljsnohomish said on January 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Thank you, Art!!! I'm a Seattle native and like you, am getting sick and tired of hearing how inept we are in the snow. My advice to any non-native that is bothered by our "snow ineptitude" ....just move right on back to whereever you came from.

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rick3 said on January 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Well now, how nice that those good folks in LA think we are wimps. One must then ask why do those Californians keep relocating here? Why not move to Illinois. (I grew up in Illinois and Kansas and lived in Alaska so I know snow). The real 'wimps' here are the Californians who just have to get out and drive to see what it is like. Every time it snows like this the media always interview some idiot Californian driver who transplanted here and just wants to go out and experience driving on the snow. The fact is that LA is flat and 1/2 " of snow paralyzes them (lived in San Diego too). I say let them call us names if it will keep those hedonistic, self-indulgent, narcissists from moving here and screwing up our local culture.

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collegekid said on January 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM

My only beef with our Seattle snow is that we aren't using enough salt. That being said, I got 8 inches of snow at my house through Wednesday, plus half an inch to a full in of freezing rain and then another 1.5 inches of snow on top of that on Thursday. I have a Scion TC, and let me tell you, my car does NOT like the snow. I was smart enough to stay off the roads for the past two days. I think LA doesn't have any reason to be slamming Seattle on how we react to snow. The hills were INCREDIBLY dangerous, and I can't imagine any one from Cali would would want to attempt it.

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mrmnikon0921 said on January 20, 2012 at 12:10 PM

'A driver atop Queen Anne Hill, after a typical snow-melt-refreeze-snow cycle as we've seen this week, simply has no chance to get to the bottom of the hill without sideswiping half the parked cars en route. Pure physics, friends. Not driving skill." And yet every year there's video of people trying to drive down the hill. So maybe the Seattle drivers aren't wimps...maybe they're boneheaded, wishful thinkers, in denial? As I was driving Thursday, I couldn't help but notice that the drivers in the 4WD vehicles had to drive faster than the posted speed limit - even as the roads were in terrible condition and snow was still falling. I saw drivers try to pass stuck vehicles by going into the median (turn) lane that had even more snow in it - and they got stuck too (in a Mazda 3 - low to the ground, wide tires). So, wimps...no. Boneheaded, wishful-thinking, living in denial drivers...yep!

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fourlost said on January 20, 2012 at 10:42 AM

i think everybody here is half right. seattle does have some unique problems when snow falls, AND seattle drivers do become hysterical about the road conditions. having said that, i don't think anyone in LA should be dissing us cause most of them have never even seen snow, let alone had to drive in it. i lived in salt lake for many years, and one of their main snow removal weapons is salt, but they also have an extremely flat city. down there, if it snows 18" you dig out your car and go to work, cause you know the roads are going to be clear. seattle has always used sand. just sand. sand works on snow, but is useless on ice. any of you ever play shuffleboard? same principle, spread a little sand on that highly polished surface, and the tiniest force can send the puck flying in any direction, bouncing off other pucks. i would love to see our critiics try any of our hills under those conditions. cause even though seattle added salt this year, we still use alot of sand.

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dakotanative said on January 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM

Kingdomes and the replacement are used 52 weeks a year. Snow plows, maybe two weeks a year. Harder to justify a plow. I have never been in any of the stadium other than the t-dome, but I can see a lot of cash rolling in from the stadiums. No return on a parked plow. The fact that someone lives on a hill and meds chips, or lives in Olympia and commutes to Everett is not justification to buy a plow for every road. If you HAVE to be somewhere, plan for it. If not, stay home.

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saynotolibs said on January 20, 2012 at 8:31 AM

I think that they are correct. I got stuck behind a cable company van driving 15 MPH with chains on going north on West lake Sammamish this morning. All that for some wet slush...LOL. That being said though, it is not something that LA should be slamming our region for. Surely most people there have never even driven in snow.

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seeatlcurMUDjin said on January 19, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Sorry Art, but the reality is EVERYONE loses their snowy road fear the moment they strap a pair of skis onto their car rack. There's no difference between Seattle concrete and the wintry road to Crystal Mountain, bub! If there was a ski lift on Queen Anne Hill instead of traffic lanes, I'm convinced every business in the metro area would be open and we'd call it "Whistler." My wretching muscles are cramping from this unending state of oh-my-godness and the ubiquitous belief of every webbed-toe that their snow saga is unlike anything anywhere else. Get online and watch an Alaska TV weatherman do a January forecast. Then watch our local atmospheric prognosticators and note the half foot of separation between their pupils and eyebrows when there's just a whisper of a white flake. This Seattle madness is pure SNOVERKILL!

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JoelMath said on January 19, 2012 at 9:29 PM

Californians calling you "snow wimps"? Yes, I totally understand your beef there. However, I'm one of those transplants (from New England) who gets incredibly frustrated with how the snow is dealt with around here. It has very little to do with our residents' reaction and lack of experience with this weather. After all, it only happens a couple of times a year in this area. But it DOES happen a couple of time a year around here. So why don't we prepare for it? We deal with snow much better in New England, not because we have more experience with it, but because we have the tools to deal with it properly. Plows, sand, and salt. Even before one flake hits the ground, crews are out pre-treating the roads. We need way more plows and we need to use salt. Not this de-icer bs. Now I haven't crunched any numbers or anything, but I have a really tough time believing that it wouldn't pay for itself in one season. Think of all the losses from closed businesses, car crashes, injuries... for 3"??

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windcliff said on January 19, 2012 at 9:18 PM

Dear Art Nice meteorogical and geographical primer but you are wrong. The wimposity of Seattle in snow remains a truth. I have heard it too many times to not actualize that this is a bonafide barometric affliction. The pathetic squealing of vente latte' deprived urbana who vote officials out of office because they did not have the cahoonas to simply walk to the closest Starbucks is truly embarrassing. This goes well beyond the difficulty of the conditions here which are tricky. It is instead a celebral laziness of which I am tired of witnessing and nauseous from listening to. Too much rain on the brain. Yours respectfully Dan

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rob2tall said on January 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Of course since a lot of money is wasted on new king domes rather than snow plows-perhaps there is a small issue to deal with

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rob2tall said on January 19, 2012 at 8:51 PM

They are too busy smoking bud down in LA to notice anything

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SFGSPrinc said on January 19, 2012 at 8:27 PM

Way to go, Art! Thanks!!

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jmwsaw said on January 19, 2012 at 8:13 PM

I totally agree that our terrain is dangerous, all the more reason we need more salt trucks...not sand. My only response to this article of "Shut the hell up"? (I might ask the same of you) "Shrinking state revenue"? huh, we just ask that he cities & state put the plows that are on the roads, all the way down to scrape the road and move the slush before it refreezes...that puts the 'common' back into sense. Businesses can't afford to always foot the bill of paying employees to not come into work...we need to be able to get employees to work so we can pay for "the shrinking state revenue" via our B&O revenue & payroll taxes. Something an employee (like you, Art) will never understand...but your employer does. I'll step off my frustrated soapbox now...but this article hit a nerve for this small Seattle business owner.

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