Up Front: 'Outrageous Learning'

shorelinegoofy said on December 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM

How can you have this guy talking about education and the union without some one there to defend teachers. As an active member of the teacher's union, most of what I advocate for is for my students. People need to look more closely at the teacher contracts and realize that most of our contract is about what is best for students. Personally I spend at least $2000 a year for my 10 students. It's the politicians that need to change not educators. People say our education system is broken but what is broken is the funding system. This education system has never been given the funding needed to make it work. If we actually funded education it would work. When Scott talks about having more people in education that aren't educators he is talking about custodians, secretaries, nurses, lunchroom staff, instructional assistants, etc. that only make a little more than minimum wage and are the backbone to keeping our schools running. I wouldn't want to work without them.

ellebee7 said on December 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM

Just saw this show (12-27-09). Wonder when the last time Mr. Oki was in a real classroom with real children? We aren't working with widgets or beans...sticking a pair of new shoes on a child will not fix a child's learning difficulties. Please visit a school with high poverty, high transiency, and the majority of students that do not speak English as their primary language.

pennyc said on December 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM

I agree with Mr. Oki - Bravo!

randi1983 said on December 27, 2009 at 9:57 AM

I thought the things he said made absolute sense. We need less people in the office and more people in the classroom. I just wish that we could really make these changes instead of just talking about them.

tbart said on December 27, 2009 at 10:17 AM

I understand you guys feeling offended, I get it. It's like someone calling your baby ugly. But the biggest shock to me was the ratio of administrators to teachers. Really? We're not even 1 to 1, but less than that. He said Australia has a 4 to 1 ratio. Admins are necessary but like any corporation there are probably a bunch of positions with people in a cubical or corner office pushing papers or trying to invent some new program to justify their existance. Admins are necessary I get it. But cut from them before the teachers and get the ratio down. How many did he say make over $100K? I can't remember the number but how about leveling them out a little and bumping up the teachers. Yes we need to fund the education system better but the education system needs to run more efficient just as much. It resembles more government than it should. Change in education happens at the teacher/student level, face to face, in the classroom. That's what Mr. Oki was trying to emphasize.

fleetwood said on December 27, 2009 at 10:21 AM

I am a retired teacher and I thought he was outstanding. Common sense was the fabric woven thoughout his ideas of possible changes. When administraters say here is the curriculum, and here is how you will teach it, and this is the timeline doesn't work for every child.

tartanphoto said on December 27, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Mr. Oki should do more research before he spouts: Washington has had a law on the books for many years that allows a student to attend any public school as long as it isn't over capacity. Who takes advantage of this? Parents who get off their butts and ACTIVELY participate in their child's education (the real secret of effective education). Of course charter schools do better - the same type of parent takes their kid there. No teaching certificate required for teachers so we can have a bigger pool to choose from? Are we just going to try them out and see how they do? This is brilliant! This solution could be used to solve the health care dilemma by not requiring surgeons to waste time with training.

tartanphoto said on December 27, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Mr. Oki should do more research before he spouts: Washington has had a law on the books for many years that allows a student to attend any public school as long as it isn't over capacity. Who takes advantage of this? Parents who get off their butts and ACTIVELY participate in their child's education (the real secret of effective education). Of course charter schools do better - the same type of parent takes their kid there. No teaching certificate required for teachers so we can have a bigger pool to choose from? Are we just going to try them out and see how they do? This is brilliant! This solution could be used to solve the health care dilemma by not requiring surgeons to waste time with training.

oldguy said on December 27, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Mr. Oki pointed out some facts that need more publicity. His observations are from an objective viewpoint and deserve thoughtful consideration. The objections spouted off seem to be knee jerks that weren't listening to what he said. if your baby is ugly, why not take a look at how you can improve the poor guy rather than just keep telling him he is beautiful. it's interesting to hear the opinion of someone who hasn't a financial or personal ambition tweaking their opinion. If we want to see what the valley looks like, it helps to get a view from a nearby mountain. Mr. Oki is on that mountain.

seabecker said on December 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Good interview Allen. I have experience with both public and private schools. Oki is absolutely correct that the fix is NOT more money. We need to change the culture of education. The first place to start is to provide choice. This includes charter schools and vouchers for private schools. Let bad schools change or die. The union needs to go away. Good teachers should be paid very well, and bad teachers should find another profession.

seabecker said on December 27, 2009 at 12:36 PM

shorelinegoofy wrote, "This education system has never been given the funding needed to make it work." I absolutely disagree. I would rather say, "This education system has never funneled the funding it receives into the classroom where it is needed to make it work."

loveteaching said on December 27, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Mr. Oki has some good points. Far too much money is spent in maintaining a bureaucracy that should be spent in the classroom. Unions also need to do a better job of policing their own and being a force for change. I have concerns though with some of his statements. When he compares the per student spending in the U.S. to other countries, is he comparing countries that also educate ALL of their students, including those with significant disabilities? Many do not. The per pupil cost is much higher for these students. Again, some of the studies that compare the Math and Science scores of U.S. students with other countries do not take into account that many of those countries do not educate students with disabilities. Finally, the U.S. has a deplorable rate of childhood poverty for an industrialized country. Research study after research study has shown a strong correlation between academic acheivement and socio-economic status. Compare away, but compare fairly.

msmagi said on December 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Oki is right - we need to completely change the culture of education. When Elwood Cubberly decided to use the emerging industrial model for education - which is a stacked bureaucracy - classrooms became "FACTORY MODELs". 1st we need to develop teachers differently. More on leadership and facilitating learning and less on downloading prescribed curriculum. 2. We need more principals who can mentor, coach and develop classroom leaders. 3. The money should go to buildings and classrooms not central office place holders - who weren't so great in the classroom and now play petty in district - politics or to ESD's or State Offices. 4. Get the politics out of it - NO to Governor appointments. More innovation to local school boards. 4. All schools should be able to design a charter system. That isn't going to make the unions happy AND unions are old news unless they want to reinvent themselves. We need an innovative new model for the structure of schools.

oldguy said on December 27, 2009 at 6:35 PM

I don't remember his exact words, but Mr. Oki's comment that teacher unions should be promoters of improved learning instead of contenders for their own benefit was unusually insightful and something we should hear more of.

ddc878910 said on December 28, 2009 at 12:09 AM

Oki's position is not new nor outrageous. Oki's argument has been around. What Oki spouts is the arrogant perspective leaders in the business sector have of public education. These individuals mistakenly view the issues of public education as solvable through effective business strategies. The flaw in this logic comes at the foundation of the argument. People are not things. There are numerous factors that make "fixing" public education not a simple task. Issues of generational poverty and diversity complicate their "simple formulas to improve." If it was that easy, educators would have it solved by now. How arrogant can outsiders be? Come join us in the inner city trenches and see how complicated it is. Lastly, politicians, as it is, use public education as a political pawn and there has never been any "research-based" solutions to solve this complex problem. Shame on you Schaffler for making a one-sided argument and trying to pass this on as something to think abou

happylx said on December 28, 2009 at 5:37 AM

I totally agree with Mr. Oki. Our school system is broken. One central idea on teaching does not work for everyone everywhere. Decentralizing school administration would leave each school to decide what is best for their students, thus giving the teachers the proper aids they need for their particular teaching situation. This would amount to the same idea we have as choices for shopping for clothes. If we want better apparel, we go to the store that supplies what we are looking for. If the closer store wants to compete, then it raises its standards to meet our needs. Same would hold true for our schools. Enough with graduating our children that upon leaving school can’t read, hasn’t the ability to write a complete sentence, nor do math above adding and subtracting. America runs 15th place in education world wide. Homes schooled, private schools, charter schools all provide excellent education with less per child expenditure than public schools.