Thousands march in Olympia over union rights

nan777 said on February 28, 2011 at 9:04 PM

For those of you out there who still think that public employees don't pay taxes, would you please call the IRS and tell them to give back the money being garnered from my paychecks? I think it would be better coming from one of you. Also, in response to s10maniac, who said in their post on February 26, 2011 at 5:01 PM, "I'm sorry but Unions just make it so non-union workers make less than they should and union workers make more than they should. Plus they make the union leaders rich," who do we think is getting rich from taking away benefits from any employee, whether from the private or public sector? Who stands to benefit, and how?

allenbluhm said on February 28, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Tax payers have rights. It is thier right to see quality results with the usage of tax dollars. The public union(s) have three objectives. 1. Insure the continued existance of the union. 2. Dictate to the State how to run our education system, and dis-allow any requirement for teachers to perform their job to a high standard. 3. Force the State to retain sub-standard employees, and actually reward them with automatic raises and benefits. Public unions envoke complacency and inefficiency among it's members, for the sake of maintaining the power of the union, and at the expense of tax payers. I, for one, pay 100% of my health care coverage, and I'm proud to be able to do that. It is a financial burden, but I don't expect my neighbors to foot the bill. Corporate America long ago used "benefits" to lure quality employees into the fold. Public unions have now made "benefits" into a mandatory entitlement, as well as paid sick leave, etc. We need to start over, and be realistic.

stroker451 said on February 28, 2011 at 8:24 AM

ANYONE whom is against unions and the jobs they represent are just a bunch of WHINERS!!! They are just in envy of the wages and benefits we all enjoy because we were smart enough to negotiate for them in an organized way. Just because their jobs are in the toilet, doesn't mean that they can go attacking unions. DONOT make unions your scapegoat for the economy being in its current condition. The economy is bad because of ONE and ONLY ONE reason. GREED on the part of Wall Street and the executives of the companies that you work for.

chrahn said on February 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM

It is difficult to take our country seriously, when we pay actors, athletes and radio-commentators more than we pay our teachers, policemen and firemen.

skok_cush said on February 28, 2011 at 7:40 AM

Public Unions. . . ."Take money out of the Economy, (Taxation) To Give money to Govt Workers, (salaries) and then Tax the money again as it Passes through (Govt Revenue). . . . . . .only libs can Appreciate that logic.

bazwest said on February 27, 2011 at 10:53 PM

Marching for individual rights would be a much more logical thing to do. Unions take away individual rights and only benefit a person if they happen to agree with the direction their union is going. When personal freedoms go out the window it really does not matter if it is to a union or to a corporation or to the government your freedom is still gone.

rnl52 said on February 27, 2011 at 10:13 PM

Good on them! Unions are the only thing between us and a corporatracy.

pnwfemale said on February 27, 2011 at 6:41 PM

For most of the years with my current employer, we did not have a union. We did not have great benefits, either. The only insurance that was offered was Basic Health. Now, we have a better pay scale, we have better insurance, and improved working conditions, since we became organized. Unions are not bad things to have. Without unions, we would not have a 40 hour work week, and children would be a source for cheap labor.

rite2post said on February 27, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Say goodbye to unions... if you want more pay and benefits, be like the rest of us, apply to a different job.

catzie said on February 27, 2011 at 4:00 PM

Public unions force taxpayers to fund the Democratic Party!

smoocher1 said on February 27, 2011 at 12:24 PM

It 's ironic the mideast is fighting for Democracy while at home the Republicans have an agenda to destroy the rights of workers. The long, bloody history of establishing unions sets standards for all of us, Republicans and Democrats alike. The miners were virtual slaves, denied union representation and paid in script only good at the company store. People were beaten and killed when they tried to get unions yet others persevered. We recently lost over 30 miners because the owners refused to allow unions in to protect them and safety violations were virtually ignored by the government. Fines were cheaper to pay than to meet safety standards so the miners were expendable. Look at the oil rig disaster in the gulf...BP is making record profits and they too ignored safety rules. I find it interesting that Senator McCain says we should give military and financial support to the mideast while we are cutting off heat assistance to the poor and elderly at home. Get real on priorities.

ccole said on February 27, 2011 at 11:30 AM

@satapo - Grow up and figure out the real issue here. Misuse and abuse of tax $$ by some who think they are the average worker. When they are really the average worker 30%, and we (about half of the country) are sick of it.

bubbalmt said on February 27, 2011 at 11:26 AM

Unions are the molasses of economic progress. They are necessary to an extent, but should be voluntary only. It's become a cult.

goamerica said on February 27, 2011 at 11:08 AM

satapo..... Have some more coolaid. Get your facts straight before commenting. Your comments are misinformed and outdated rhetoric. Try to keep up if you're going to take part in adult conversations.

spypappy said on February 27, 2011 at 10:41 AM

@f350pwrstroke - Where did that come from? What entitlements am I trying to save?

satapo said on February 27, 2011 at 10:21 AM

Scott Walker wants to make a name for himself by portraying himself as the reincarnation of that Air Traffic Controller union –busting hero of yore - Reagan, worshipped for that act, to this day by right wingers everywhere. Scott, like his republican counterparts, has little genuine concern for the deficit. If his concern was genuine, he wouldn’t reject the fact that the unions have already conceded to his cuts. He won’t accept their concessions because cutting deficit spending is just a smokescreen to thinly veil his true goal of completely eliminating the unions. It’s similar to another Republican’s scam that used concerns over WMDs as a smokescreen to thinly veil the true goal of going to war with Iraq. WI, look into how CA pulled off the recall of Gov. Gray Davis and, apply as many of those principles as your laws will allow, to recall Gov. Walker. Your protest has significance far beyond the boundaries of WI. The majority of the country is behind WI’s protesters.

javajoe said on February 27, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Though each individual has the constitutional right to speak out or to start a business or to find work wherever they wish, union rights don’t exist. Our elegance is not to a particular union which doesn’t have the ability or the ownership to grant its workers anything. Besides, as someone who is a member of a union, I am much more concerned right now about the loss of my personal property rights as a free citizen and a taxpayer than I am about the loss of my union's power.

ccole said on February 27, 2011 at 9:17 AM

c'mon people. Know the difference between public unions annd private unions. One costs us and one does not. This is not a fight against the "worker" it is a fight to equalize the public and private sector so the Public tax funds are not wasted. Why should a private company bus driver make $17 an hour with no benefits, and a Metro bus driver (paid by tax dollars) make $28 an hour with full benefits. Public union control is the only reason for the difference.

sourgrl247 said on February 27, 2011 at 9:17 AM

ok, teachers have an incredibly challenging job with today's children. They are very different than the challenges they faced when I attended school. There is a lot of violence, behavioral problems and things that were not really issues that they are today. They have tens of thousands in student loans, a new teacher doesnt even make 40k a year. Why? They negotiated pensions and benes as part of their income pkg. I am a state worker. I am a nurse and chose my profession because I wanted to make a difference. I have tens of thousands in student loans as well. I could go to the private sector and make more an hour and still get a decent bene pkg. I contribute 6 percent of my pay to my pension and pay 15% of my heathcare, over $100 dollars a month in premiums for 2 people and deductibles and out of pocket more than double every year. Everytime there is a small wage increase it is timed perfectly with a contribution increase and parking increase to swallow up the raise.

ringer said on February 27, 2011 at 9:08 AM

remember when the Nazis outlawed unions?

ringer said on February 27, 2011 at 9:02 AM

Don't be a Union Hater. Blame management, they sign off on contracts, they bargain. We should outlaw Wall Street. They are the parasites. Bottom line your elected officials and their appointed managers are the cause not unions.

plutonomics said on February 27, 2011 at 8:21 AM

f350pwrstroke, from what I get the government workers used to get paid less than the private sector. However, they get pay raises based on the cost of living. When is the last time the private sector gave you a pay raise because the cost of living went up? That's part of the reason they make more now.

f350pwrstroke said on February 27, 2011 at 7:58 AM

spypappy, your just in fear of losing your entitlements is why you do it on your own dime, but the truth is it's my dime and your not welcome.

f350pwrstroke said on February 27, 2011 at 7:55 AM

I really don't think the unions belong in the public sector. They are a private organization. I am sick of all these entitlements and it needs to stop. why is it that a private sector job wages are only half of what the public sector is for the same job and not to mention about 1/4 the work. this has to stop. I am tired of my tax dollars being wasted.

telman said on February 27, 2011 at 7:40 AM

I live in Wenatchee and was ticked for having a license plate that wasn't clear, now maybe it was a bit dirty but after 3 days of snow and 9 degree weather it just might get a bit dirty. These wonderfull public servants are a corrupt joke. Maybe the United States should have a day of rage.

chrahn said on February 27, 2011 at 7:05 AM

I am sorry I couldn't be there, to support the workers. We are the people who provide the goods and services.

yessir said on February 27, 2011 at 4:46 AM

all those firefighters there? No free t-shirts... all there on their own time and dime... they drove themselves there... no box lunches for any of them... and speaking of lunches... when someone starts referencing "animal farm"... you know they're "out to" lunch.

spypappy said on February 26, 2011 at 11:58 PM

I wonder how many more we would have had in the Pro-Walker rally if we offered free shirts and a box lunch? We don't have a protest fund. We don't pay our particpants. We don't bus them in. We get there on our own dime taking time off of work. And we don't offer the homeless free lunches and cash to hold our banners. We recognize that sooner or later we will run out of other peoples money. Where do the unions think all this prosperity will come from if we 'bring down the rich capitalist pigs' just like their Uncle Karl taught? The worker will never be rich until he makes himself rich. The collective right cannot exceed the individual right. You can't rob me of my money. Why can the goverrnment? Even Boxer (Animal Farm) understood he must work harder.

rnl52 said on February 26, 2011 at 11:00 PM

@bazwest~no, my friend, you crack me up! Who got to give unlimited amounts to campaign expenditures? The corporations who were classified as "people" by your ultra-right supreme court, they are behind the mis-guided tea party (being run by Dick Armey), these ignorant , mis-guided people actually believe that corporate trans-nationals have their best interests at heart. Sure, lets balance the budget ff of the backs of working men and women, let the people on wall street go. If I had my way, taxes on the top 5% would be back at 71%, like they were before Kennedy.....when the economy worked.

freedomthinker said on February 26, 2011 at 10:03 PM

what i don't understand is peoples unwillingness to separate the ideas of "public" union vs "private" union. two completely different animals. private unions negotiate with corporations to secure a larger share of corporate profits for their members, public unions negotiate with governments to secure a larger portion of the tax base for their members. the difference is subtle but distinct. corporations actually generate wealth, through sales of goods and services, etc. governments generate no wealth they can only take it from others.....and what they provide in return is no longer worth it.

stcrispy said on February 26, 2011 at 9:23 PM

This is classic shock doctrine of the Milton Friedman school of economics. The real purpose of this is to break the unions and knock their money out of the political system, now that corporations have free reign to spend money. You can see the results of the plan in South America: they create a "crisis," sell off the public utilities, eliminate the social safety net, send more than half the population into poverty and send the treasury to the Cayman Islands. When the economy collapses, the multinationals bankrupt the local subsidiaries after they sell off the assets. Teabaggers and Republicans want the us to be a third world country.

primemover said on February 26, 2011 at 9:16 PM

I was there, too yessir. And you are correct -- meansh37 is LYING. The union people who were bussed in were all Washingtonians. They had every right to be there. And the only person I ever saw yelling at others was a TP-er. We laughed at him. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

primemover said on February 26, 2011 at 9:09 PM

Thank you for getting the number on the pro-Union crowd correct. One of your competitors (KI uh-oh) is saying there were "More than a half dozen union members..." Um, yes. Decidedly more. And there was at least one provocateur among the crowd, trying to provoke an angry response from us as we marched to the Capitol building. We didn't take the bait. I don't think that people who are trying to scapegoat Unions and especially unions of Government workers, have a grasp on exactly what this is about. This is about creating a society where the top 2% controls the rest of us. 1984, anyone? Maybe a little late, but we are headed that way. Just keep swallowing the lies and don't rock the boat (it's a yacht and it runs on the souls of the middle class and poor) and we'll get there sooner than you think.

mrcasual said on February 26, 2011 at 8:20 PM

"Republicans" have no idea what they want, nor do they understand the goals of their "leaders". Remember that it's "The Grand Old Party". You're really not invited, but they really appreciate your support. Hop off the party bandwagons and attempt an independent thought. Federal, state, and county employees are funded by local and federal taxes. Union or not, they still pay taxes like everyone else. The salaries they are paid do not reflect what they reinvest in own jobs. As a federal employee myself, I am required to pay for my own benefits, and I still pay federal and local taxes. The cost of my benefits is not that far off from what I paid in the private sector either. rnl52 was not off at all.

yessir said on February 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM

bazwest... you know I still like ya!

bazwest said on February 26, 2011 at 8:02 PM

rnl52 you crack me up. Republicans are all for a fair and decent working wage. I want that for myself as much as I do for anyone else. The problem is this: When public employees are unionized it is like the fox guarding the hen house. Election campaigns, particularly of democrat politicians, are funded from dues extracted fromhard working union men and women with no say as to how these dues are spent. Democrat politicians who are owned by the union then have no will power to negotiate fair and proper contracts with these unions. They give them basically everything that is demanded. It isn't their money they are committing after all its ours. Who loses when the money runs out? The poor that are relying on government help, the average taxpayer that has to pay more out of their hard earned paycheck. The only winner? Taxpayer funded state employees. Why shouldn't they pay a fair portion of their health care costs like the rest of us do? They should!

rnl52 said on February 26, 2011 at 7:10 PM

People are finally waking up to the REAL agenda of republicans....to put all of Americas workers (whats left of them) to a wage on par with China. A working person voting for a republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

davesea said on February 26, 2011 at 6:49 PM

Union members deserve more than the regular workers because they have friends--the best that money can buy.

mrcasual said on February 26, 2011 at 6:29 PM

Unions generally exist to support trade skill employees. Which these days is almost dead. Unions are the voice of these people. Yes, some of them have taken advantage of their power over the years, but have still tried to provide a fair working environment for the people that dedicate their lives to their trade. Those people working in the "equal opportunity" or especially "leadership" positions really shouldn't have a say in this. This is really about the trade workers. The ones that do the work that make most businesses successful.

yessir said on February 26, 2011 at 6:17 PM

and if that was a "tea party rally".... dear heavens... 4 more people and people might have thought you were a bus stop... what an absolutely pathetic showing.... USA Today poll... 61% of Americans decidedly do NOT want an end to collective bargaining for public employees... and that didn't mean 39% did either... there was a significant undecided portion... folks.. that's what you call a landslide. These anti-government types don't have near the popular support they like to pretend... they are POSERS

yessir said on February 26, 2011 at 5:34 PM

meansh is fibbing... I was there... none of the above... I loved how all you teabaggers suddenly stopped yelling and didn't know what to do with your "Unions = Greed" sign when the public union employees started singing the national anthem.. You guys aren't patriots... you're posers.

wrsawy said on February 26, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Unions protect workers. If it wasn't for unions we would be working 16 hour days, have no benefits and receive minimum salaries. Go Unions! If you work for a rich owner of a private company and don't make enough, talk to your boss, don't blame unions.

s10maniac said on February 26, 2011 at 5:01 PM

I'm sorry but Unions just make it so non-union workers make less than they should and union workers make more than they should. Plus they make the union leaders rich. Getting rid of the union in Wisconsin will slightly lower the pay of most state workers which will ballance the budget. On the other hand, employies wont have to pay union dues that go to suport many over payed union leaders who use scare tactics to get the employies they represent to defend the union. Union leaders are all out to protect their own jobs not the people they represent.

meansh37 said on February 26, 2011 at 4:36 PM

Actually it was a TEA Party rally and the union were the counter demonstrators. What is missing from this article is that PAID union demonstrators showed up. Many had to be shuttled away from the TEA Party side for trying to insult and flip off the speakers and trying to goad TEA Party rally participants into confrontations. The WSP had to send a line of troopers over to the Union activist side to ensure they stayed in line while the TEA Party rally attendees, numbering in the hundreds, politely listened to the speakers. Many of the pro-union demonstrators, bussed in from surrounding cities with their union-paid signs and matching tee-shirts attempted to shout down the Tea Party rally speakers, but were unsuccessful. The TEA Party member policed up their garbage from their area after they finished their event, while the union counter demonstrators left much garbage in their wake for their state-union counterparts to clean up. This was very kind of them.

skizzle42 said on February 26, 2011 at 4:36 PM

Union busting is playing into the globalist hands. It's another example of the false right left paradigm. If you bust it up your helping them out too. It's full spectrum dominance. George Soro's wants you to fight the Union. We need to look at the bigger picture , what caused the economy to go bad in the first place. And is cutting every ones pay gonna fix it, no. They set this whole thing up by getting rid of Glass Steagall , and creating too big to fail. It's the globalist plan to implode the economy. And while they transfer the wealth off shore they'll set us up and try and divide us. That way we fight when they try and bring in the austerity measures. And they have a reason to bring in a police state. The WI governor has already said he thought about using “troublemakers” to infiltrate and discredit the Wisconsin protests. That sounds like a globalist false flag tactic to me. We need to come together to fight the global banking cartel not each other.

ccole said on February 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM

Walker is right, public unions are a rip off to the tax payer. Private unions are a different thing. These uninformed protesters don't even understand who pays them, and that we're tired of thier overreaching, selfish tactics.

ramac7716 said on February 26, 2011 at 4:28 PM

State workers will lie cheat and steal your tax dollars and they don,t care be cause you can't firer them they think are better then the people that pay them and this has too stop NOW.

benla said on February 26, 2011 at 4:27 PM

With the help of the Koch brothers and other shady secret big business types, Scott Walker in Wisconsin has given huge tax breaks to the rich and put the debt on the backs of the middle-class. I attended the rally today and though I am not a union member and don't completely support all union ideals, I was proud to lend my body and voice to help support the American dream for the 98% and help bring accountability to the 2% ultra-rich citizens. If you are rich I completely understand why you would support and vote for Republicans, if you aren't then I cannot believe you don't read deeper than the propaganda dished up on Fox and start looking out for your best interests. Open your eyes America, the dream is leaving our living rooms and now lives on in board rooms.

nick22 said on February 26, 2011 at 4:26 PM

Unions are not perfect for sure but they are a voice for the workers and that is good thing. Learn some history and see how the rich treated workers and children before unions. The tea party is joke we should not be taking advice from uneducated people who are mad at society because they think it is unfair to them but I think their is some common ground we can all agree on like public financing for campaigns would be a good think and that things like the Patriot Act are unconstitutional. We should work on the issues we all agree on before moving on to these issues that divide us all.

yessir said on February 26, 2011 at 4:22 PM

Now that Moe, Larry, and Curly have spoken... I'll add.. the pro-union rally was enormous compared to the pathetic attendance of the anti-union folks who showed up... and they were classic teabaggers to boot... old fat white men with scowls on their faces and hate in their hearts.

lcarlucci said on February 26, 2011 at 4:22 PM

We need to stand with the union in this fight. Union struggles have won us the 8 hour day, minimum wage, child labor laws, workmens comp and a host of other workers' rights that no employer would have given up without a fight. Just because some unions have been corrupt over the years doesn't mean we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. At a time when our politicians have failed utterly to prevent massive economic collapse and nationwide joblessness we cannot afford to turn our backs on the only organizations whose sole interest is the benefit of workers--the unions.

momuddog said on February 26, 2011 at 3:50 PM

We can't afford any more unions who can elect their own bosses through the political system. Political types have bought campaign contributions with taxpayer money, enough.

telman said on February 26, 2011 at 3:46 PM

Yawn, these dopes are jusy looking for a cause. State is broke and you will be soon.

clemsole said on February 26, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is right unions suck.