Machine guns seized at Tacoma port

username556 said on May 14, 2010 at 1:04 PM

Machine guns? wow, sensationalize much?

rampdog said on March 11, 2010 at 4:58 PM

What a complete and total waste of time and money. Don't those agents have anything better to do than confiscate those "dangerous" toy guns? According to Customs the orange tip isn't required on replica guns, which the airsoft guns are. As for converting them, I want what that agent was smoking. Even if you could fit actual gun parts into the airsoft reciever it would simply blow up in the hands of whoever was unfortunate or stupid enough to attempt to fire it. Because those fools were screwing around with those toys how many drugs and real guns actually got through?

geawiel said on February 28, 2010 at 12:13 PM

They're still doing this!? A buddy of mine owned an Airsoft store in California and they did this to him also. It was a large shipment and they never told him why they seized it until almost year later, just that they were seized. They said they would give him 16 out of the shipment and destroy the rest. He has yet to receive his 16 Airsoft guns and as far as we know, they haven't destroyed the rest either. He had been in business for a while before this and he supplied a local military base with these so that they could do paintball war games with them. If there is really justification to seize these types of shipments, then thats fine. However, it seems like a knee jerk reaction to something and they're screwing over legitimate business owners by doing so. As someone else pointed out, it is cost prohibitive to convert these to the real thing. The real story here should be about how many people they have screwed over by doing this and what triggered them seizing now.

liquidflorian said on February 28, 2010 at 11:11 AM

These aren't machine guns... You may be able to get a real AR15 upper on the airsoft lower, but the fire control group (thing that makes is full auto) won't work with a real bolt. Hell, their is a guy on you tube that made an AR15 lower out of a composite plastic cutting board. Are we going to start confiscating those as well? All this coming from an agency that considers a shoe lace a machine gun. With out an M16 fire control group (military full auto, doesn't fit in airsoft guns), its not a machine gun. Even if you could convert it to fire real ammo, it wouldn't be illegal unless you convert it back to airsoft. The only law broken is the lack of a blaze orange tip. And if you think these will be destroyed guess again. These are going right into the hands of the agents and their training staff. Nice anti-gun bias though, King5, I'm sure the Brady bunch will give you a cookie.

bafteequalsfud said on February 27, 2010 at 11:09 AM

All those uninformed pundits weighing in, especially @hifiguy, in favor of the BAFTE and CBP, take some time out to educate yourself. These were toys that were in fact labelled as toys. The only law broken here was the red tips were removed, in some cases by the authorities themselves to further their own agendas. http://everything-airsoft.com/blog/2010/02/27/airsoft-outlet-northwest-gives-the-scoop-on-the-tacoma-seizure-an-industry-without-a-standard/

captainseamus said on February 27, 2010 at 3:19 AM

As a business owner and airsoft enthusiast (as well as a real firearms enthusiast and US military veteran) let me say this. Director Suliveras is wrong. This was a POOR interception by his officers. That particular type of gun is not capable of being "easily' converted to firing real ammunition. The metal used is a fused pot metal and untempered aluminum, the inner barrels are brass, there is no gas porting to cycle the gun (because it uses compressed gas to run) and the upper and lower are designed to be slightly different from a real gun so that YOU CANNOT SWAP the real parts to the fake gun. Airsoft is a sport that aims for realism... but they won't shoot real bullets. "Scary" looking BB guns. The only thing I can see wrong from this shipment was the orange tips missing, which could be fixed in about 2 minutes each gun with a replacement tip and some superglue to "permanently affix" them to the gun (as per federal law). QUIT WASTING OUR TAX DOLLARS, and LEARN YOUR JOB.

devil505 said on February 26, 2010 at 7:41 PM

You cannot convert airsoft guns to fire real bullets. and if you tried, they would blow up in your hands. They are made with different materials than real firearms.

tonymq said on February 26, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Hey 'Sensibleguy' These are toys made of monkey metal. They are as capable of being turned in to working assault rifles as my my 4x4 being turned into a formula 1 car! Just because they are metal means nothing. If you get real AR-15 internals and somehow get them to fit, your first shot would probably maim or kill you because thing would blow up! It's clear that the reason US Customs in Tacoma have done this is to score some silly publicity points- hey look we've done our bit for Homeland Security! Instead they've proved that they are rather disingenuous, and very worringly time wasters- on your tax dollars!

hifiguy said on February 26, 2010 at 10:51 AM

Metal Body. Plastic chamber. Switch to metal chamber and there is a potential danger. These were rifles masked as toys being transported through Tacoma Industrial. Nothing fishy about that, right? Wrong.

bafteequalsfud said on February 26, 2010 at 10:46 AM

Media FUD in it's finest form. Everything Airsoft Blog condems the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt spread by BAFTE and CBP through the media. http://everything-airsoft.com/blog/2010/02/26/u-s-customs-seizes-shipment-of-we-m4-gbbrs-allegedly-bound-for-airsoft-outlet-nw/

sensibleguy said on February 26, 2010 at 9:47 AM

What the article left out is these were not plastic toys. They are essentially an M4 with parts swapped to fire plastic balls. The article was not very clear about what these really are.

crabber33 said on February 26, 2010 at 9:10 AM

LOL...... This is a joke right?

carlconstantine said on February 25, 2010 at 9:53 PM

Are you saying that these are just fancy BB Guns and U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers don't know the difference? Hah! Hah! Hah!

sumner_son said on February 25, 2010 at 7:17 PM

...but the story's supposed to scare people, and it makes great press.......meanwhile, who knows what ILLEGAL stuff is getting by at the docks?

trojan33 said on February 25, 2010 at 6:27 PM

If you have one of these guns, like my son does, you know exactly how stupid this all is. I wouldn't add a reciever and barrel to even fire a bullet as small as a .22 short. The gun would fly apart. I always worry about my son just dropping it on the rug and something breaking. Mind boggling stupid.

monster255 said on February 25, 2010 at 6:25 PM

I really dont understand this, at all. THEY ARE TOY GUNS. Granted yes they do shot plastic bbs at 400 fps, they didnt have orange tips and they are full metal. Just to let you know there is no way that an this gun can be modified into an actual firearm capable of firing any form of ballistic ammunition. THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN MAKE THIS AN ACTUAL GUN IS IF YOU TAKE AN ACTUAL GUN AND PUT ALL OF THE INTERNALS INTO THE TOY. I am just astounded that these toy guns are seen as firearms... its just idiotic.

yessir said on February 25, 2010 at 2:47 PM

gravel, I always hold respect for reasonable debate and comments... even if I'm not entirely in agreement. Thanks.

tonymq said on February 25, 2010 at 2:24 PM

My Airsoft WE M4 fell off my workbench and the D-ring thread cracked! It's a toy. To suggest anyone would go to the effort to make this fire real ammo to only get one round off is silly- they would end up with shrapnel all over themselves. You can get just about any toy airsoft rifle from Walmart to fire off one round.- what you will be left with will be in lots of bits! The media should also inform themselves more about these toys- if they did then perhaps US customs would not be able to get away with gross misinformation and media manipulation.

jinxedagain said on February 25, 2010 at 2:15 PM

Toys confiscated. Toys confiscated MONTHS ago. Slow news week. But it could be worse I guess. There could be real news about real guns being brought in...

martin7970 said on February 25, 2010 at 1:52 PM

Airsoft Outlet Northwest is the company trying to bring them in, the owner of the store will be talking with lars larson today at 2pm about the disinformation spreading from the media http://airsoftoutletnw.com/index.php/20100225155/Airsoft-News/Apparently-Airsoft-Replicas-are-Now-Machine-Guns.html

tonymq said on February 25, 2010 at 1:49 PM

I should also add, I own one these very same M4's by WE. They fire plastic BBs through an aluminium tube. the tube will shatter with a real 5.56mm round along with the magwell receiver. To get the 5.56mm round to fire you'd need a new receiver and trigger assembly - i.e. a new real steal rifle! The description by Tacoma customs is totally absurd and misleading.

martin7970 said on February 25, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Airsoft Outlet Northwest is who was trying to bring these in, they're going to be talking about it on the lars larson show today at 2pm http://airsoftoutletnw.com/index.php/20100225155/Airsoft-News/Apparently-Airsoft-Replicas-are-Now-Machine-Guns.html

tonymq said on February 25, 2010 at 1:38 PM

This is just about US customs police wanting to make themselves look good- by capturing toys! Increasing their stats by basically lying to the press and public. US customs have already tested these rifles from the very same manufacturer and failed after several weeks to convert them to fire real ammo. It's totally absurd to think that these toys made of monkey metal could be converted. US customs in Tacoma must be getting very very desperate!

gravel said on February 25, 2010 at 12:16 PM

Gritz, they are untraceable bb guns that shoot plastic bb's.

gritz said on February 25, 2010 at 11:42 AM

Gravel, They are untraceable, they have no serial number, can be sold without the grace period and background checks. That is the point, and you know it.

gravel said on February 25, 2010 at 11:14 AM

yessir, I think we are still missing important pieces to this deal. As I originally stated, if these were built on actual M-4/AR-15 receivers then there is loads of cause for concern here. What is the actual law pertaining to what designates a receiver to be a controlled receiver? Does it have to be dimensionally identical or just close enough? There are loads of replica's out there, in many different forms from these AirSoft toys to the replica John Wayne revolver in the glass case on the wall. What sets these apart from the real thing legally? And yessir, I did use a bit of a broad stroke in the reference to the article, sorry.

yessir said on February 25, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Reading the article Gritz provided and gravel's response... how exactly is a newspaper "they" in the UK trying to take away the kitchen knives in the US? Basically, you have weapons experts with agencies such as the ATF saying these alleged toys can be rapidly modified into working weapons. Once again, there's no ATF raids going on at my local Big 5. The question begs... was this shipment intercepted in route to someone that fostered concern? I do not profess to be an expert on the topic of weapon conversion, nor would I trust anyone suggesting they are an expert on an internet blog.

graham said on February 25, 2010 at 10:50 AM

This country is so loose most of the time you could get a 747 in. Lucky they found the guns & it's only a matter of time before we get hit again, we let everyone in the state's & there is so much stuff that get thrue the ports that no one finds

gravel said on February 25, 2010 at 10:35 AM

Gritz, I don't have to do a google search, I have an AR-15, and it has yet to go on a killing spree, though I keep my eye on it incase it decides to. As for the article you posted, what relevance does it have on this situation? It is nothing less than fear-mongering! Remember, they are the same people who want to take away your kitchen knife!

gritz said on February 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM

Gravel you are wrong, I fully understand the internals of an AR-15/M4and M16 A1/2.Do a Google search and know what you are talking about before you get on your soap box and try to act an authority on a subject.. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23433408-500000-fake-guns-a-year-reach-britain.do

yessir said on February 25, 2010 at 10:02 AM

gravel.. you may have me there ;)

gravel said on February 25, 2010 at 9:50 AM

Apparently not until it gets to the lab.. ;)

yessir said on February 25, 2010 at 9:43 AM

ah... but the ATF does ;)

gravel said on February 25, 2010 at 9:18 AM

""""""""""""""huskykma said on February 24, 2010 at 6:48 PM The Seattle Times has the same story, except for one sentence. "ATF lab results indicated the rifle to be a WE-Tech, Model AWSS M4CQBR, Airsoft M-4 copy." It seems that King 5 has conveniently left out the part that states these are actually toys and not real guns."""""""""""""""" Worth saying again for those who seem too slow to pick it up the first time... You people who think this can be easily converted have zero understanding what so ever of the mechanics of an M-4/AR-15.

yessir said on February 25, 2010 at 8:01 AM

Once again... the ATF, whose agents have extensive experience dealing with firearms issues, had particular interest in this load of items. They express NO interest in the assault rifle looking pellet guns at my local Big 5... but they were interested in "this" shipment. Something was up.

sumner_son said on February 25, 2010 at 7:53 AM

Real rifles use a cartridge, filled with a flammable powder, and a bullet, usually lead. The cartridge has a small primer filled with a material which ignites when struck (think of the old cap guns). On a real gun, pulling the trigger releases a spring-loaded hammer, which strikes the primer, igniting it, which ignites the powder in the cartridge. The powder ignites, which produce a gas which rapidly expands. The barrel of the rifle provides the avenue of escape, and the expanding gases push the bullet down and out the barrel. The barrel and the receiver (the area where the cartridge and hammer assembly reside) has to be specifically designed to restrain the high pressures involved. Airsoft rifles on the other hand, use simple springs or an inert gas (usually CO2 or nitrogen) to propel the pellet out of the barrel. Not only are the receivers and firing mechanisms completely different, the airsoft barrels are made from cheap low grade metal which will not take the pressures.

clear2copy said on February 25, 2010 at 12:10 AM

wha? a bunch of toys were seized and the chicken-littles are all freaking out? It's no secret how anti-gun King5 has always been.. they were probably drooling over a non-story like this.

tranzor said on February 24, 2010 at 10:06 PM

Not a machine gun... why do the editors allow something to be called a "machine gun" when even a real auto-firing M4 like what the military uses isn't even a "machine gun"? Those who say an automatic rifle is a machine gun, go look up "machine gun" at a site that is full of real military info... those two terms are not the same. A machine gun would be something like a belt-fed item, like an M60, a Russian RPD, a SAW, etc. This is akin to someone saying a Corvette is a "race car". Idiotic at best, dangerous misinformation meant to sensationalize at worst.

shanem said on February 24, 2010 at 9:18 PM

"A perfect weapon for a group of people who want to do harm and at the same time keep anonymity. Can you think of anybody who might be interested in having this capability?" The Washington Legislature?

gritz said on February 24, 2010 at 9:10 PM

All you McGuyvers out there clueless. Yes, this is technically a toy. But the manufactures scoped this gun out so that it can be retrofitted with actual gun parts to create a semi auto weapon that has no serial number and is untraceable.A perfect weapon for a group of people who want to do harm and at the same time keep anonymity. Can you think of anybody who might be interested in having this capability?

shanem said on February 24, 2010 at 8:59 PM

"These rifles could have had far-reaching and potentially devastating ramifications if they had gotten into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population," said Customs and Border Protection Area Port Director, Rolando Suliveras, Jr. "This was a good interception by our officers." Funny that I found 7 different places to purchase the WE CQBR on the first page of a Yahoo search, there has to be something more to this. In the meantime, I think I'll buy one :)

yessir said on February 24, 2010 at 8:47 PM

I'd be interested to know how easily these particular items could be converted... there's a few people on here who claim to know loads (imagine that on an internet blog), but I'd suspect the ATF (who deals with weapons on a very frequent basis) has a pretty good idea how easily these might be converted. The big 5 up the street has pellet guns (some made to look like assault rifles), and the ATF isn't interested in those... but they sure took an interest in these particular items. Perhaps there's a reason?

steelhead413 said on February 24, 2010 at 8:14 PM

Isn't there anyone at ATF or TSA with a brain? These are AIRSOFT toys that shoot soft plastic balls. There's no way that these toys could be converted to shoot real ammunition. The people that cracked this case should all be fired immediately.

brewster said on February 24, 2010 at 7:56 PM

Seized in October, and now almost 5 months later this is headline news? Come up with something better King 5!

jonjuan said on February 24, 2010 at 7:54 PM

Bull roar!

huskykma said on February 24, 2010 at 7:48 PM

The Seattle Times has the same story, except for one sentence. "ATF lab results indicated the rifle to be a WE-Tech, Model AWSS M4CQBR, Airsoft M-4 copy." It seems that King 5 has conveniently left out the part that states these are actually toys and not real guns.

browndog said on February 24, 2010 at 7:15 PM

I can get a hold of many different guns, many similar to this one and it is LEGAL. You can take all the guns in the world away from people, but if someone decides to go crazy and become terrorists there are many more ways to succeed. P.S. You will never take my guns away.

collegeguy said on February 24, 2010 at 7:12 PM

Considering they are ACTUALLY considered an assault rifle, which has a fully auto fire rate potential depending on the version/modifications done to the gun, they can be classified as machine guns... and considering they are assault rifles, they fall under the assault rifle ban. However, the ATF is the idiot group here and King5 just reported the info they were given by the ATF. This is a legit toy air soft gun and considering, as another poster said, the expense of changing out the insides would cost as much as buying this gun from a dealer, the chances are slim that it is an actual problem. The only real concern with this method is that these guns have no traceable info on them from the gun manufacture if they are bought as a toy and modified, making them virtually untracable if used in a crime.

huskykma said on February 24, 2010 at 6:48 PM

You have got to be kidding me. These are fully automatic AIRSOFT guns, valued at about $300-350 each. They were not being disguised as toys, they are toys! A semi-auto AR-15 costs around $1,000. A fully automatic M4 or M16 goes for $15,000 to $20,000 each. What idiot thought that these were real guns, or that they could easily be converted to fire real bullets? Our government is full of idiots.

holykow said on February 24, 2010 at 6:44 PM

SO now if it is in the shape of a gun, even though the worst it could do is a Ralphie Class "SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT", it could be dangerous if you do major engineering to it? By this mentality, we should ban all car parts. Because once they put them together, they are the most prolific non-natural killer of humans on the planet. And Machine Guns? Right now they are sub bb guns. And unless they have an illegal trigger group, AND SHOOT REAL BULLETS, this really is just ignorant scare tactics...and it is. This is embarrassing. HK

proudamerican said on February 24, 2010 at 6:32 PM

$330 for an M-4? I think not. The air soft ones are $170. M-4's are about $1000-$1200 I think. This story stinks.

yogibear said on February 24, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Does the owner of the machine guns have the last name of "Kelly" ?

gravel said on February 24, 2010 at 6:14 PM

So theo6, what makes two seemingly identical guns (M-4 and AR-15) either semi-auto or full auto/select fire? It's the components that you can't see, not the components that you can see. By the description in the article, these "toys" were not constructed with these components, but could have had them added. So essentially the Honda in your driveway could be prone to all the safety issues of a Toyota, if you were to transplant all the internals of the Toyota into your Honda... See my point?

digitlsubversion said on February 24, 2010 at 6:09 PM

This article is another case of the fear mongers misreporting the facts, just to make their case. A gun isn't a gun without the receiver. This is the exact internal part that's needed to be replaced to make it "capable of firing live ammunition." In fact, those internal components have serial numbers and are restricted by law as being nearly equivalent to the full machine gun. Now if the article mentioned that the ATF stopped a shipment of M4 receivers, then that would be newsworthy. But I guess ignorance makes for a more sensational news report!

inforelife said on February 24, 2010 at 6:08 PM

I hope the others are in route to the State Capital!

theo6 said on February 24, 2010 at 6:04 PM

Try to read the article first and then arm yourself with with an ounce of knowledge before commenting. First, know the difference between an M4 and an AR-15 (AR-15 is not even mentioned in the article). Then grab a dictionary or go to the BATF website to learn what a machine gun is. If it makes you feel better, let's call an M4 a submachine gun. The article even had a hidden clue to help you out. See the words "automatic rifles"? Hey Jethro grap your gun - here come the black helicopters:)

gravel said on February 24, 2010 at 6:01 PM

Better yet, do you know the difference between an AR-15, M-4 and an AIRSOFT???

gravel said on February 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM

les398, do you know the difference between a M-4 and an AR-15??

chevyz7125 said on February 24, 2010 at 5:55 PM

Must be a slow news day....

les398 said on February 24, 2010 at 5:48 PM

uh they are not AR-15's they are M-4 rifles which they DID mention in the article

chuck_dub said on February 24, 2010 at 5:45 PM

To retool this toy to fire live ammunition would cost nearly as much as the real gun. The individuals who would want do harm in the American population are those buying real guns and not wasting their time making toy lethal. The ATF and the Customs have exaggerated this bust and is patting themselves on the back for stopping a shipment of toys. Bravo!

gravel said on February 24, 2010 at 5:43 PM

It's all about timing, gotta keep the scare machine rolling!

mikthrac said on February 24, 2010 at 5:40 PM

Why is King posting this now? They seized them last October......6 months later? report the news that is happening now, not months ago....

gravel said on February 24, 2010 at 5:23 PM

Do you people understand what an AirSoft is? It shoots plastic BB's, you know, like those cheap little plastic guns you can get at the corner Dollar store.

tracer2009 said on February 24, 2010 at 5:14 PM

They're going to destroy them? Too bad! They should set up shop at the entrance to one of our National Parks. They'd be handy for shooting up the wilderness.

shanem said on February 24, 2010 at 5:07 PM

Is this some kind of stock photo? WE CQBR is an airsoft company. There are stores in Portland selling those airguns right now (per a quick Google search) or were actual M4's packed in the airsoft packaging in an attempt to avoid detection? There is lots missing from this story.

goamerica said on February 24, 2010 at 4:59 PM

What a joke. Machine Guns ??????????????????????????????????????Go to http://www.airsplat.com/Items/GR-WE-CQBR-GBB.htm and read about these guns yourself. They are one of the top selling AirSoft Guns on the market although, YES, very realistic. NICE TRY MEDIA BAFFOONS, KIND OF REACHING THIS TIME AREN'T YOU. Geez what a farce. What do you expect from a leftist media group.

jamey said on February 24, 2010 at 4:58 PM

These are guns, and guns are machines, but these are not machine guns. The Headline is as misleading as the manifest. Criminal to ship these as mislabeled "Toys" to get them in to the country. Just as criminal to mislabel your article to get people to read.

tracksider said on February 24, 2010 at 4:44 PM

I don't see what the big deal is, you can go to a gun show right now and buy a semi-automatic that fires real bullets right now can't you?

gravel said on February 24, 2010 at 4:44 PM

So help me out here, were these AirSoft rifles or were these "Machine Guns"??? If these were manufactured on true M4 receivers, I can completely see the issue, however if they were not manufactured on actual atf controlled receivers, there should be nothing illegal about them.

inyofacereality said on February 24, 2010 at 4:31 PM

Even REAL AR-15's are NOT machine guns. Get a clue AP scaremongers.

inyofacereality said on February 24, 2010 at 4:30 PM

Even a real AR-15 is NOT a machine gun...Ignorance is bliss and sells newspapers.

scoty said on February 24, 2010 at 4:25 PM

They also could have gotten into good hands and shot potential TERRORISTS, like people who slam planes into IRS buildings.

seattlerealist said on February 24, 2010 at 3:28 PM

to put velocity into persective, a real rifle shoots a much heavier metal projectile at ~1300 fps.

historian48 said on February 24, 2010 at 3:23 PM

I wish they would just say ar-15s instead of machine guns to make it sound scary. Disturbing that these are just showing up illegally though. This is damaging to the lawful gun-rifle owners of this country.

jwsmith said on February 24, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Isn't this just a regular airsoft rifle? Granted they don't have the orange marker on the end of the barrel, which makes them illegal to ship. You can do a search on WE CQBR and find stores selling this "toy".

gritz said on February 24, 2010 at 3:06 PM

Now if we could find the other 99% that make it through....