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Investigators: $10 million spent on extras for group of state employees

by SUSANNAH FRAME / KING 5 News

Bio | Email | Follow: @SFrameK5

KING5.com

Posted on June 24, 2010 at 9:56 PM

Updated Friday, Jun 25 at 6:45 AM

If you've ever paid to ride a ferry, you know it's expensive business. And the most expensive part of this business is paying the employees.

The KING 5 Investigators have found staff chief engineers consistently make the most of all Washington State Ferries employees.

There is one staff chief engineer assigned to each boat. They’re responsible for the engine room located below deck.

KING 5 obtained 10 years of payroll data for all those top engineers and found it's been a decadent decade for these fortunate few.   

More than a dozen engineers made more than our state's top leaders in some years, more than Chief Supreme Court Justice Barbara Madsen, more than the Secretary of Transportation Paula Hammond and  State Ferries Director David Moseley. Even more than Governor Chris Gregoire.

That didn’t sit well with ferry riders.

"That's ridiculous, it doesn't make any sense,” said one rider.

"Government waste. Somebody needs to be held accountable for that,” said another.

Who made the most of the staff chief engineers over the last decade?

Mike Fagernes of the ferry Evergreen State.

He collected nearly $700,000 above his base pay in overtime, travel time and other extras since the year 2000.

The former staff chief of the Kaleetan, Duke Waters, raked in $585,000 above his base pay.

The Chelan’s top engineer, Tom Fraczak, earned more than a half-million dollars extra over the last 10 years.

"We fight every day for our kids and our families and then this type of situation goes on and it's just really sad to see that," said a ferry rider.

Forty men have held the position of Staff Chief Engineer since the year 2000. The KING 5 Investigators added up how much the group made above their base salaries since that time. The number? Nearly $10 million.

"That number itself is huge, but what it represents and what they money could be going towards, especially in today’s economy, it’s maddening," said a ferry rider.

Some overtime is not only expected in running a big ferry system, it's essential. It’s part of the cost of doing business. But what the KING 5 Investigators found isn't a fluke - one or two busy years. They found a pattern of massive overtime every year for the last ten. That's called institutionalized overtime.

Ardent conservative Senator Joe Zarelli, R-Ridgefield, is known as a budget hawk.

"It sounds more like institutionalized corruption to me. I mean that's the word. You're gaming the system. You're taking advantage of the system. Corruption is really defined by taking advantage and doing technically what is not the right way to operate, so it’s corruptive in nature in my opinion,” said Zarelli.

All ferry engineers work 12 hours a day - one week on followed by one week off.

By looking at hundreds of handwritten time sheets, KING-TV found many staff chief engineers aren't relaxing on their days off - they’re working. Working for double and sometime triple time pay. As per their union contract, if they work 5 minutes or 5 hours on a day off, it's an automatic 8 hours of overtime.

"They are some of the hardest working state employees around," said Karol Kingery, Branch Agent of MEBA, the Marine Engineers’ Beneficial Association, which represents the staff chiefs. "They are simply doing what management has known about for years. They’re working endless hours to make sure the boats are as safe as possible. And these are the safest vessels you’ll find."

Secretary Hammond says historically the staff chiefs have taken complete ownership of the boats, which could account for a lot of the overtime. But she now realizes they need to find ways to reduce those costs, such as assigning the alternate staff chief or another chief engineer to do a lot of the work on straight time.

"They feel like it's their head that would roll if something breaks down out of negligence or something else. I like that ethic but on the other hand we have to try to minimize costs where we can”, said Hammond.

KING 5 also found engineers writing that they've been "called in" for the extra work.

For example, in 2008 the staff chief engineer of the ferry Wenatchee, Doug Phillips, wrote he was called in from a day off 72 times. But that's not quite accurate. The staff chief engineers typically call themselves in, for self-assigned overtime.

Secretary of Transportation Paula Hammond didn't know that until KING reporter Susannah Frame told her about it last month.

"I've never heard this explained to me this way. This is good information for me," Hammond said on May 12.

After the interview with Frame, she looked into it.

"It sounds like you asked hard questions, like who's approving this overtime. And what was the answer?" asked Frame.

"They were not good answers," said Hammond last week.

The chief engineers aren't sneaking around to make extra cash.  Managers sign off on every timesheet.  Director of Vessel Maintenance Paul Brodeur is ultimately responsible.

"There have been people who've said heads should roll. You should fire somebody. You should fire a bunch of somebodies. As a manager I can't fire anybody until I know the facts and I need cause," said Hammond.

Secretary Hammond says she's not firing anyone for what happened in the past because she's not sure the managers knew it was their job to question overtime and cut costs.

"My question on the management team is: What did you think your job was? Were you ever told that was a part of your responsibility?" said Hammond.

"That's ridiculous,” said Mike Ennis, Director of Transportation at the Washington Policy Center. "If you work in the public sector you should know that one of your primary jobs, especially as a manager, especially if you control a budget, is to contain costs."

"This is institutional, clearly, if it's been going on this long and there ought to be consequences for it. The taxpayers really got stuck," said Sen. Zarelli.

Earlier this week, Governor Gregoire responded to the KING 5 "Waste on the Water" investigation. She seemed to dismiss our findings because most of what’s been reported didn’t include state workers breaking the law.

But other state leaders are taking what’s been exposed seriously. Just this week, an 11-page document was released to KING 5. It’s a new Ferries Division Overtime Policy. It’s the first policy of this type the ferry system has had in 50 years of doing business.

The spokesperson for the Department of Transportation said the new policy is a direct result of the KING 5 investigation and that they are hoping it will save taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Secretary Hammond is also in the process of hiring a consultant to better understand the ferry system's management culture in an effort to help the managers reduce costs. The consultants' fee is expected to cost less than $15,000.

Washington State Ferries also released overtime statistics to KING 5, which show that overall, overtime has been reduced in the last two years. In 2007, overtime paid to employees who work on the ferry decks and below deck in the engine rooms totaled $6.6 million. That number was reduced in 2009 to $5.6 million.

Click here to read Ferries Division Overtime Policy

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 80

captaingreg said on August 10, 2010 at 3:43 PM

So, after all of this whining about alleged waste can someone please explain to me why the Terminal Employees are being paid 28% over the M.E.C. Salary Survey? The Deck and Engine are (or have been) below the Salary Survey but the Terminal Department is heavily inflated on the wages for ticket takers and parking attendants. I thought that WSF contract negotiations and attendant wages were expected to be based almost solely on the the Marine Employees Commission's Salary Survey? Looks like this little nugget went unnoticed by Susannah. Maybe her "inside sources" are a little close to home for her to mention this discrepancy? 28%; I wonder how many millions that has cost? You all should be asking Susannah why she's ignoring this little story. Do the math, we're probably talking about 2 or 3 Million $ a year in excessive wages over and above the salary survey. Susannah has the documents. Why is she ignoring this? Is it because she's prosecuting a vendetta against one department?

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conspiracy said on August 7, 2010 at 12:00 PM

I think it's amazing how some folks can't seem to tell the difference between right and wrong. Moreover, they try to displace the conduct of these employees to the U.S economy and CEO's taking more than their share or whatever else. Bottom line people: This sort of conduct is egregious and allowed because state employees are allowed to join unions. Unions only work to serve unions, not employees and not the general public. It's amazing how out governor and other bureaucratic leaders can't understand why the public seems to hate them so much. It's because of their obvious stupidity!i

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nonclassical said on July 8, 2010 at 10:07 AM

"Private sector" worked out really well for "investment banks" utilizing "securitized mortgages" to borrow trillions to monopolize commodities (let's remember gas went from $1.00 a gallon to $4.00 between Clinton-Bush) and derivatives to the tune of $trillions..by the way, how can we have "too big to fail" and "anti-trust laws"? Americans appear to fall for everything, including scapegoati ng state and union employees for economic destruction of the entire U.S. economy..we aren't being informed about what really happened, are we? If we were, those in charge at the highest financial levels would be all over media...

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jfparnell said on July 5, 2010 at 3:33 PM

You think government workers are expensive? Try a government contractor.

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invalid said on June 29, 2010 at 1:36 PM

This is why you don't let the government do what could be done by the private sector. Nobody is responsible for anything. Even if they're called a "manager" they believe their job is to pass it up the chain, where it eventually gets lost in the morass of government bureaucracy.

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nonclassical said on June 28, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Kagiee, Please note that for all the bluster-scapegoating of WSF and state and union employees, Ms. Frame has NOT followed the money$$$$ that led to U.S. economic destruction. That destruction amounts to $$$$TRILLIONS..over $600 Trillion to be concise. It doesn't appear to be the job of media to INFORM people of what has actually happned to cause this destruction. Rather, the attempt is BLAME GAME, to blame those who had nothing to do with economic meltdown. Blaming WSF is completely incongruent...google up Matt Taibbi's, "The Great American Bubble Machine" and read that content. FOLLOW THE MONEY is not a matter of a few hundred thousand at WSF...it's TRILLIONS..

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kagiee said on June 28, 2010 at 11:49 AM

Let's see...$10 mil. here, $900,000 there, billions more over there and hey!!!! Out of money raise taxes!!!! Works every time!!!!

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1loosescrew said on June 27, 2010 at 1:21 PM

Many commenters seem to voice their opinion based solely on emotion rather than informed knowledge on the matter. There's always two sides to a story, and Ms. Frame hasn't done any real investigating. No effort to get any input from the folks she's maligning, but in her world those WSF folks are guilty before any real due process. There are so many blatant lies in these articles its hard to know where to begin correcting them. One that comes to mind is the 8 hrs. OT for a phone call lasting five minutes. That's a flat out lie. I could see adding up a series of phone calls taken during their off time and then submit the appropriate amount of OT for just compensation. Their expertise is worth something to the state and their off time is worth something to them and their families. The inside sources also have an agenda it seems. Should come in handy when the state goes to the bargaining table to use this stirred up emotion based BS against the WSF employees.

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1loosescrew said on June 27, 2010 at 12:13 PM

sfrow, don't believe everything you hear. A sad aspect to all this is that some people actually believe what Ms. Frame has tried to portray. Hey folks, just because you read it or see it on the news doesn't make it true. Do you believe what you read in the National Enquirer too? Ms. Frame obviously has a vendetta and is being fed inside BS from one or a very few uniformed and ignorant WSF employees. But hey, she's selling air time and gullible people will listen and think they learned something. Typical King County mentality.

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sfrow said on June 27, 2010 at 7:44 AM

For so many years I have thought only the best of ferry employees. But what a huge disappointment to here this. I do hope that these workers care more about the quality of their work than the do about our (and their) tax dollars. And that there will be no retaliations made to future riders.

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nonclassical said on June 27, 2010 at 6:56 AM

It is shameful for King 5 to scapegoat state and union employees for the destruction of U.S. economy. It is especially egregious as King 5 and other media have not told Americans the truth about what has actually happened to destroy economic endeavor-specifically, Robert Johnson, Senate Banking Committee Chairman has blown the cover off=told the truth regarding. Simply google up the previous info "derivatives" and read. Investment banks, using "securitized mortgages" as "collateral", borrowed huge sums which were used to monopolize commodities and derivatives futures markets. Derivatives valued at $1.3 trillion circa 2001, are now valued at $600 trillion, and monopolized 95% by 4 U.S. "investment banks". Super computers run programs so secretive they reside outside public consciousness. The entire mess is the result of mergers over the 70's, 80's, and 90's, creating "too big to fail". How can "too big to fail" and "anti-trust laws" exist simultaneously?

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jaimeretief said on June 26, 2010 at 11:25 PM

hubert1; what are you talking about? I don't know about the rest of you but that wasn't cogent. I'm sorry but if you are not an English speaker you need to enlist professional translators in lieu of utilizing Babelfish. However, if I read the translation of the last portion correctly you appear to be advocating the elimination of overtime in favor of a "base pay" that reflects the rest of the industry. No one in the industry works for "base pay." So, if you want to replace the current aggregate pay with a "base pay" that reflects average industry income you are suggesting that the state double the existing "base pay." Sweet!

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nicehatharry said on June 26, 2010 at 10:44 PM

This is becoming such bullshi*, move on and find something else to dig up. Susie only tells part of the story just to get the readers riled up and Jean with her Weyerhaeuser husband are irrelevent. A contract is a contract,

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hubert1 said on June 26, 2010 at 9:07 PM

My review of the comments finds most can be summed in a few catagories. Personnel needs to uncomplicate the mess years of tacking amendments to the union rules, making non-base pay allowances reflective of WA taxpapers, i.e. paying employees to drive home to/from work, paid only hours worked by ending the 8-hr pay if 5 minutes over and the others. All contracts need current pay comparisons to industry pay with elimination of all these pay tack-ons. Federal law is 40 hours regardless how worked--I used to get 32 hrs OT after 32 hrs worked due to the any time after 8 hrs is OT. Moral and ethics need to be brought back to make a realistic pay environment! The more it hurts, the more it shows the institutionalized lack of moral and ethics. I am a democrat but this union attitude of killing the golden goose is going to kill the unions--the ferry system will continue without them. Last, in the comparison of BC 11.4% OT vs WSF 8.5%, what are the base pays, crew turnover rates.

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framed said on June 26, 2010 at 7:48 PM

I think it has become fairly clear that waste on the water is a targeted hit in a land with numerous potential victims. The selectivity of the sniper's aim is a function of the maniplation of those feeding it their own skewed view of the world. Left sacred are those dogmas held dear by the extreme right her interviewees represent to ensure she has an audience to show advertisers. One last thing, if you want to see how the users of WSF services feel, go to the Kitsap Sun article on WSF privatization comments by the governor. See you all next time. Framed

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nicehatharry said on June 26, 2010 at 5:40 PM

I"ll be sure to ask Jean the next time she goes to her sprawling BI home how much she is paid. You know, she probably gets reimbursed for her commute to the office as do a lot of commuters. I wonder if that is considered wrong or stealing when an individual gets hired by a big company and they're negotiating their salary and other "perks" ie; commuting, parking, perhaps meals, and time off just to name a few.

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surfer4m said on June 26, 2010 at 3:20 PM

The point of my earlier post was that the state is getting a good deal on having only a single person to fill All the rolls of those many professional trades. The below deck employees are on duty 24 hrs a day, For-Ever until the boat is retired from service. Compare that to keeping electricians and plumbers and all etc. on the job all day and all night. Its cheaper to keep a few good multi-taskers available to do everything. ...Good job of the investigator to read 70,000 plus, hand written time sheets for the last ten years.

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wiperwally said on June 26, 2010 at 12:07 PM

lol, KINGTV doing an investigation into how the politicians and corporations who game the taxpayers for fixed multi-million dollar contracts? That would require risk plus fear of retaliation from a bevy of corporate lawyers. State Employees are pretty easy pickings. She is painting only the picture she wants to see displayed. Leave the real news to the Comedy Network and Rolling Stone magazine. Susannah Frame is a one trick pony. Sen. Zarelli just defamed licensed documented USCG Merchant Mariners. __________________________________________________ Meanwhile one of the true gems of the Northwest, a tourism magnet unequaled has just been maligned by very questionable intent. What I've gathered from this "Waste on the Water" series is that the disgruntled have reached out just like misery and found company. KINGTV is their willing conduit. KINGTV is unwilling to recognize those of us who bust it 24/7/365, they have just been used to avenge personal vendettas. Am I wrong?

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doogy said on June 26, 2010 at 10:53 AM

Hey Snitchman, aka Framed, why don't you STFU and go away, and take the doogster with you. You're both worthless pieces of stool samples. Nice try though, trying to divert attention from yourselves

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framed said on June 26, 2010 at 10:17 AM

K5: here is another way for WSF to save money. Hire 100 more WSF Eagle Harbor workers to do a portion of the work being done by private contractors at the state subsidy of 30 dollars per hour. Eagle Harbor has 100 workers, roughly. They work on average 208,000 thousand hours per year on WSF ships and terminals. This means that we save 6.24 million with 100 state workers over what contractors would charge the state for the same work. By adding the 100 workers WSF would save an additional 6.24 million dollars per year instead sending the work to private shipyards and their stock holders in Florida. Now we are talking 6.24 million each and every year. So in the next decade of decadence, the state will pay an extra 62.4 million (2010 dollars) to private shipyards over what it would save if it hired another 100 union journeymen at Eagle Harbor. There would still be plenty of work for the contractors. Where are the conservatives when you are trying to save real money?

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framed said on June 26, 2010 at 9:07 AM

Frame please investigate how much more money it costs the state to subsidize the private shipyards by restricting state workers to jobs which cost no more than 120,000 dollars in parts and labor. Please do a waste on the water expose with the picture of every member of the legislature that voted against raising the limit from 60,000 dollars to 120,000 dollars in the last legislative session all (R). Here is a related question you should ask. Just a few weeks before Todd shipyard signed a sole source contract with WSF to build three small ferries for 210 million dollars, it gave all of it's workers one of the biggest raises they had ever recieved. It new that it would get this contract because it was the only shipyard bidding on the job. It new the WSF construction contract would have to pay for the increased labor rate and it new that this would mean more profit for them because they make a % of profit based on every labor hour. Raise the base to raise the profit.

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framed said on June 26, 2010 at 8:58 AM

So ellis and zarelli are concerned about cost. What about this. Eagle Harbor workers cost just about 1/2 of what WSF pays commercial shipyards for each hour of labor (WSF weighted rate is $40 to $70 for the shipyard labor hour). That means the cost of the same job done by state workers vs private contractors is a great deal less. Why then did Zarelli and Ellis and the rest of the republicans endorse a legal limit on the amount of vessel maintenance our state workers can perform? It was raised from 60K to 120 k in the last legislative session. Their position increases WSF costs significantly because private shipyards cannot compete with state workers on a cost basis. That's right, the state subsidizes private industry over it's own work force to the tune of 30 dollars per hour! Each shipyard period results in thousands of hours of labor, each subsidized with 30 dollars of tax payer money.

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reformer said on June 26, 2010 at 8:09 AM

Been reading the forum, which now appears to be a blog for ferry engineers to state their case and insult writers. I think those of us who see this overtime pay as an unmanaged cost need to write to your representatives and demand that engineers and captains be placed into management. Clearly, all you can see this is a direct result of no management representation on the vessel. Engineers say they are accountable, no way! No state union employee is ever held accountable; however, a manager must be accountable for cost overruns, performance standards, etc. From what I've seen so far, it looks as though Staff Chiefs are not accountable for costs whatsoever. They can just spend, spend, spend and pad, pad, pad, unquestioned. Call your representative! I'm tired of the rude deckhands with no supervision on board the boat. I'm tired of seeing these types of stories with no accountability.

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zforrest12 said on June 26, 2010 at 7:30 AM

WOW! THE REAL PROBLEM I AM SURE IS THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE OUT OF WORK OR WORKING FOR VERY LITTLE MONEY. SO THEY ARE JEALOUS. 50-70k a year in overtime is not that much when you do the real math. this is the same every where. you could swap out WSF and put in BOEING employees just as easy. If the public wants to tar and feather some one why dont they go after the banking or wall street executives that get 20million dollar bonuses for taking bail out money. I hope some one sues and wins for liable or defamation. the news media is to corrupt these days. they probably got the story in the first place from DOT management.

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framed said on June 26, 2010 at 7:12 AM

So what causes the Staff Chief to work overtime? 1: When the ship is broken down he is called in to either perform the repairs or to ensure they correctly address the problem. 2: When the ship is taken to Eagle Harbor for her annual maintenance. To decide and direct what maintenance must be accomplished in the correct order to ensure continuity of service for the coming year. 3: To demonstrate to the USCG that all of the ship's safety systems and critical equipment is being maintained properly and conforms to USCG regulations. 4: To represent the ship in all planning and design meetings in management as that particular ship's expert. 5. To oversee the work being performed by the ship's crew, Eagle Harbor personnel, vendors and the shipyard workers so that each of the work groups avoids interfering with one another resulting in costly change orders, delays and increased expenses. When the SCE is gone, who will do this work? K5 says one of the other guys wrenching.

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framed said on June 26, 2010 at 6:59 AM

What does Ennis or Zarelli really know about this situation other than what Frame has said? What would they say if the Staff Chief Engineers save the state several times their annual salary every year? Would that be a good deal? Would it be a good deal if those individuals were able to make 80 year old ferries continue to run with the highest reliability in the industry. Consider that most ships never see their 40th year. If the cost of a tiny new ferry like the ones being built now is 70 million dollars, how much do they save the state by babing their ships for twice the life of any other ships? The people of Washington realize the savings in our capital budget every year through the dedication of these individuals. They know their ships, they work on the same ship for decades. That accumulated knowledge is what the "single vessel owner" concept is all about. No other classification of WSF employee serves on the same ship for so long.

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necaeosomnes said on June 25, 2010 at 11:36 PM

You probably have an issue with it due to your rudimentary education, as evidenced by your spelling. The analogy is absolutely relevant. Jean Enersen makes what she makes because that is the prevailing rate the market will bear for someone of her stature in her industry. Chief Engineers have negotiated contracts with the state that are commensurate with the pay rate for their qualifications and credentials and their industry. I have a question for you, yes or no, if your employer offers to pay you travel time and mileage, to and from your job, would you refuse to accept it? Yes or no? Next, please cite all laws and statutes that were violated. If you can't cite any, you have lost this debate.

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crazytrain247 said on June 25, 2010 at 11:16 PM

necaeosomnes, talk about idiotic analogies and not getting it. you take the cake buddy! 250k for enerson, for the no. one anchor, in the no. 13 market in the nation, is a steal in television terms, and is in no way relivant to your case. apples to oranges pal! and saying that no laws were broken is just as stupid. that's like the travel expenses that frame caught them scamming on, a couple of weeks ago and reported on, not illegal but VERY sleazy in a bad economy and over budget. NO? they quitely agreed to discontinue that perk in august and i bet this one soon follows. if it's part of the countract and legal, why do you think the general public has such a problem with it and the only ones supporting it are the ferry workers!

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keithc said on June 25, 2010 at 10:30 PM

don't paint all state workers with the same brush just because of the antics of the WSF dbags.

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rationalthinking said on June 25, 2010 at 9:57 PM

Framed: forget the sewage tanks. We should be paid penalty time for watching King 5.

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necaeosomnes said on June 25, 2010 at 9:53 PM

hourforum: you don't get it. Even Frame admitted that no laws were broken. It is not the same as your idiotic analogy. It is not stealing; it was paid for under the contract. What is wrong with all of you envious people? Just because you don't get paid that much doesn't make it stealing. Jean Enersen is listed as having had a salary of about $250K in 1997! $250K? For reading the bleeding news? You've got to be kidding? Now that is absurd! Sitting at a desk reading some hokey story while looking into a silly camera. Wow, that must take some real smarts Dr. Science. However, she makes that much because that's the going rate for what she does. If you don't like it tough. She's not stealing when she gets paid what she has negotiated in her contract and the Ferry Engineers aren't stealing when they get paid under their negotiated contract. Wow, the green monster of envy appears to be one of the most powerful motivators on the planet!

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rationalthinking said on June 25, 2010 at 9:40 PM

The TRUTH is an ABSOLUTE defense against a charge of defamation. The FALSE ACCUSATIONS and fuzzy numbers DEMAND REDRESS!

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framed said on June 25, 2010 at 9:38 PM

rutkuykendall: I new a kuykendall once, he was a Staff Chief Engineer who got canned by management. He used to run the same boat that guy in the islands used to run, the one frame says made so much over ten years. I wonder what happened to him....now that guy, he would make a good story for frame.

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rationalthinking said on June 25, 2010 at 9:37 PM

In addition, cause would exist under Washington's Defamation Per Se statutes. Under "per se" defamation, where the allegations are presumed to cause damage to the plaintiff. Typically, the following may constitute defamation per se: * Attacks on a person's professional character or standing * Allegations that an unmarried person is unchaste * Allegations that a person is infected with a sexually transmitted disease * Allegations that the person has committed a crime of moral turpitude Dori Monson called the Ferry Worker's on "special projects" THIEVES! I wonder how Belo Corporation's stock will do once 370 Engineers and Oilers have had enough?

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hourforum said on June 25, 2010 at 9:33 PM

LOL they change policy AFTER something was found out not before. The damage was done. These people should repay it- they stole it. If you steal something it is ILLEGAL. Stealing 50K per year is a FELONY. Try doing that kind of work at a bank.. Hummm, there is the vault,, Hummm it has 50K in it... HUMMMM I can use a new car.. HUmmmm guess what the cash is missing. These guys should repay it all back, and be fired. Stop covering up the issue. What they did is wrong. I do not even make 30K a year.. not even 20K per year... what makes these guys think that they can just take 50K just for the taking. WRONG!

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rationalthinking said on June 25, 2010 at 9:33 PM

Enough is enough. She has referred to benefits under the contract as perquisites. She has accused us of "gaming" the system. She has impugned our professional reputations. She has had an absolutely deleterious effect on our livelihoods and morale. To wit: Typically, the elements of a cause of action for defamation include: 1. A false and defamatory statement concerning another 2. The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement) 3. If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and 4. Damage to the plaintiff In the context of defamation law, a statement is "published" when it is made to the third party. That term does not mean that the statement has to be in print. Damages are typically to the reputation of the plaintiff, but depending upon the laws of the jurisdiction it may be enough to establish mental anguish.

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quietone said on June 25, 2010 at 9:24 PM

I just read Sara41 's comment. What a stupid thing to say. You are totally ignorant.

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quietone said on June 25, 2010 at 9:18 PM

The ignorance of this reporter just amazes me. She has no idea who these Engineers are. Who does she think is held accountable if ANYTHING goes wrong on these ships. The Staff Cheif.. She evidently does not even know that the WA State Dot Ferry Engineers are the lowest paid in the entire NATION. Let alone what their skills are worth in the private sector. Something personel is going on with this reporter. Prehaps she was jilted by an Engineer and hell hath no fury.....

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framed said on June 25, 2010 at 9:13 PM

So now, we have an average of 25,000 across all fourty guys over teen years using frame numbers, which Mosely disputes by 50%. Discounting the head of the WSF for the moment, what happens to that 25 thou per SCE when you figure in the higher numbers in the story. One guy makes 700k in 10 years for 70k per year, that skews the average for the other 39 guys higher. Another guy from the Kaleetan makes an extra 500k in 10 years so that is 50k per year. That also skews the average of the lower 38 guys upward. I am beginning to think that the real average for the average SCE over 10 years is quite a bit lower than the 25k frame is reporting. So again, why would she use a few examples to develop a picture which misrepresents the picture for a larger population of individuals. Is this just a math gimic to create a more sensational story than actually exists. By the way, crawling through those sewage tanks is not all that bad, when they are empty.

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framed said on June 25, 2010 at 8:59 PM

Fourty guys, 10 years, 10 million. That averages out to an extra 25 thousand per year in overtime, travel time, penalty pay, holiday pay and comp time in liu of over time. Then of course there were some awards for injuries sustained on the job such as for lost hearing. Arbitration awards because WSF refused to negotiate contracts for nearly a decade. Probably some more that I can't remember. So of this, WSF controls all travel time for SCEs and everyone else. Likewise holiday pay, all people who have to work on a holiday get extra compensation. The SCE does not get much penalty pay unless he is crawling through fuel or sewage tanks. The comp time for the SCE is exactly the same as every employee. So what really distinguishes the SCE from other employees is the overtime component of frames decadence. Why then does she lump in all of the other types of pay? Could it be to make the sum of the ten year span of time seem bigger than it really is? Frame what is this all about?

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framed said on June 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM

There is an interesting facet about the frame reports that I am wondering about. You see there is a class of engine room employees who are more numerous than the Staff Chief Engineers, the focus of so many of her reports. They are called Vacation Relief Chief Engineers. Their job is just like it sounds, an officer goees on vacation and these guys fill in. These employees have the highest company seniority and get paid to travel tp virtually all of their assignments. With all that travel they make what the SCE makes but have substantially fewer responsibilities. I wonder why frame has not picked on this very similar work group as her targeted Staff Chief Engineers. Could her "inside sources" be Vacation Relief Chief Engineers working out their various beefs against WSF and their co-workers with the help of Ms. Frame. I know some who live in tacoma and work in Anacortes and some who live in anacortes and work in Seattle. Ms Frame give us some VRCE meat!

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necaeosomnes said on June 25, 2010 at 7:27 PM

And you are just a cretin......"unhappy" must be on unemployment. What do you think heavy duty mechanics make genius? Well, here you go: $43.75 per hour Field Mechanics & Field Welders (Operating Engineers Local 513 over 3 years ago) and they don't require a Coast Guard License. I suggest you call the Coast Guard and tell them that they don't know what they're talking about and they can replace all of their Licensed Engineers with mechanics. Hey, maybe YOU should be running the Coast Guard. I hear Admiral Thad Allen is retiring and they will be looking for a Rocket Scientist such as yourself to clean up the slick in the oil-patch. Funny thing is though, when you post I can hear banjos playing in the background.

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framed said on June 25, 2010 at 6:58 PM

I would suggest that you inquire with the Coast Guard about that.

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rutkuykendall said on June 25, 2010 at 6:55 PM

Thats nothing investagate Idaho Dept Of Corrections and some people will go to jail! (If you dig deep enough)

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unhappy said on June 25, 2010 at 6:45 PM

they are just mechanics and should be paid mechanics wages...... necaeosomnes must work for the ferry system

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necaeosomnes said on June 25, 2010 at 5:25 PM

surfer4m: your suggestion sounds really nice but it's idiotic. The Engineers at WSF are United States Coast Guard Licensed OFFICERS. Your plumbers, et al, would not even be qualified for an Unlicensed Rating in the engine room. It takes years of training, experience, and testing to acquire an Engineers Ticket. All of WSF's vessels are inspected and their Certificates Of Inspection includes manning requirements (the manning list designates the number of personnel and their ratings and credentials) and none of the crafts in your list would qualify. The industry is currently looking at a shortage of licensed personnel over the next 7 to 10 years. As you know there is no shortage of carpenters and plumbers because of the downturn in the housing industry. However, what you are suggesting is the same as suggesting that Harborview fire all of its doctors and replace them with plumbers, carpenters, welders, etc. You are confusing Chief Engineers with mechanics.

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neutralparty said on June 25, 2010 at 4:59 PM

Hmmmm, Moseley just posted this to WSF's website: "Last night there was another media story on the ferry system. The story led viewers to believe that WSF paid more in overtime during the last decade than what was actually paid. In fact, the story nearly doubled the amount of overtime paid to staff chief engineers. The story also neglected to mention that WSF has reduced overtime by $1.4 million in the last three years and that WSF’s overtime as a percent of labor costs is eight percent, compared to BC Ferries at 11.5 percent." Looks like someone is misrespresenting the truth. Seems Ms Frame had best do another story on why Moseley is wrong about his own finances or make a correction to her story. Thought the contrast with BC Ferries, privately run, was most interesting. Not to suggest the staff chief engineer's should be assigning their own overtime but interesting that the privately run one uses it more.

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raincentral said on June 25, 2010 at 3:31 PM

Yes the ferries gets audited, internally and externally. I can’t remember if it’s once or twice a year but it does happen. If you want to know more about it or are looking for the facts I suggest you find out for yourself about it and don’t rely on King 5 for your facts. But wait, TV would never lie or mislead you…..

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surfer4m said on June 25, 2010 at 2:49 PM

How about replacing those engineer people with Out Of Work plumbers,electricians,computer techs,administrators,sheet metal workers,security guards,boiler operators/repair, engine mechanics,fire fighters,emt's,haz-mat cleaners,painters,janitors,welders,pipe fitters,and even railroad people to operate all the stuff . This will provide new jobs and cut down on unemployment payouts. Of course they would Each need to be available 24 hrs a day,7 days a week with 3 to 4 of each per boat to cover for the people they replaced. 4 plumber's overnight wages should still be less than what the state is paying out now. With enough of the unemployed put back to work, no more overtime.

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sara41 said on June 25, 2010 at 1:16 PM

And Governor Gregoire said to Susanna Frame "...I don't plan to do anything about it, no laws have been broken, nothing was illegal. I'm proud to have Secretary Hammond, and David Moseley..." It was painful to watch Gregoire say she hadn't even read or looked at what Susanna Frame/King 5 submitted. What a slap in the face to Washington residents. Our state needs so much--teachers, road work, food for the hungry, more affordable housing, etc., etc., etc. It hurts to see WASTE like this from the ferry system happening. Perhaps Senator Joe Zarelli can help reel in some of the waste.

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adamreinhardt said on June 25, 2010 at 12:43 PM

Great comments, reformer. Totally agree. The idea of having unions is absolutely necessary, but, like anything else, should be controlled. Hammond is a f***ing joke. She essentially says that she doesn't have a clue what's going on. Even worse, when she finds out, she makes excuses. So, what do we believe, that she didn't know or that she's covering her a**.

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reformer said on June 25, 2010 at 11:38 AM

The ferry system doesn't need to be privatized, that would be a mistake. Just remove it from under the oversight of the obviously inept Secretary of Transportation Hammond. And where did they get Mosley? All he can say is I didn't know it was happening. And why is most of this waste with the Engineers? It seems some of the system is being managed well. The story on Pete Williams and Steve Rogers looked as though some people are putting up a fight against these greedy grubby unions. Why aren't they getting help, instead, one of them is removed from negotiations. No, it seems to me the unions have way to much political clout. It's time you contacted your representative and tell them to make things fair. Unions have their place until they have absolute control, which is what it appears in the ferries. If the rest of the state is ran like this under Gregoire, she needs to be impeached!

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kbbcoop said on June 25, 2010 at 11:13 AM

"Earlier this week, Governor Gregoire responded to the KING 5 "Waste on the Water" investigation. She seemed to dismiss our findings because most of what’s been reported didn’t include state workers breaking the law." THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE SPEAKS VOLUMES!!!

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mcomfort said on June 25, 2010 at 11:11 AM

We've cut everything to the absolute bone. If we cut another dime, people are going to die. Oh, please! Why don't you just look around and see the low hanging fruit waiting to be picked!

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kbbcoop said on June 25, 2010 at 11:09 AM

If Paula Hammond is so freakin qualified, why does she need to hire a consultant? I wish I could just hire a consultant to do my work for me too. Idiot!

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denkoko said on June 25, 2010 at 10:59 AM

People in general, will get away with whatever they can get away with. When you have workers assigning their own overtime, it is no wonder they are making mor then the president of the United States. Whoever it is that supervises the evertime abusers, should be replaced if he does not know his job. Incidently, WHERE is an independant AUDITOR in this shamful SCAM of our tax dollars??

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fellowtraveller said on June 25, 2010 at 10:44 AM

One of the first to post a comment, ferryferrymad, makes a good point worth repeating: this level of compensation presumably also affects the calculations for retirement benefits and thus the "gamed" system pays off as long as the retiree lives. Another worthwhile expose' would look at state employees who take retirement and then return on contract to do the same job. Although this "double dipping" has been curtailed in recent years, it apparently still occurs to some extent. So, if we're looking for new names for our new ferries -- or to sell the names -- maybe "Gravy Train" (I think it's also a dog food) would be a logical choice.

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freedomfrank said on June 25, 2010 at 10:31 AM

I hope everyone remembers when it comes time to vote, record taxes, record waste, record cuts in services. It seems everyone has to sacrifice these days with the exception of the government and the unions. How much will be enough before we as a society say "THATS ENOUGH" Yes,,,, I said the government and the unions. If you don't think they are bed fellows then you need to pull your head out of the sand.

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anonymoususer said on June 25, 2010 at 10:28 AM

jackie - we missed your trollish behavior. How was your stay at western state?

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drunkenbubba said on June 25, 2010 at 9:32 AM

And people are surprised that there is waste and corruption in this system? The ferry system should have been privatized long ago.

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jamey said on June 25, 2010 at 9:30 AM

I love the part of this story where ferry system managers do not feel containing costs is part of their job. How about a Performance Audit by the State Auditor! When was the last one of those?

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tacwilster said on June 25, 2010 at 8:56 AM

What does the secretary do? Isn't Hammond suppose to be educated enough to understand the ferry systems management, What a farce, every time something happens they hire a consultant, if that is all the state needs then we can get rid of the secretary, the governor and everyone else, that should save the state billions of dollars and all we would have to pay is $15, 000 for the cosultant!

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momuddog said on June 25, 2010 at 7:21 AM

Called themselves in on overtime? Who is running this organization one of our states apponitees?

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davesea said on June 25, 2010 at 7:12 AM

Another unqualified state worker that doesn't have a clue, Paula Hammond needs to be fired. Just like the state in liquor business. The state needs to get out of the ferry business and let private business run the ferrys.

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1jdub said on June 25, 2010 at 6:58 AM

Heads should roll, staring at the top. lets start with the Gov, the the Secretary of transportarion, the ferry boss, and then re open the union contracts for some serious take aways. meanwhile the boats are rusted out, the passenger areas are a mess, and the deck hands are hiding out from the paying customers because of all this.

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freedomfrank said on June 25, 2010 at 6:54 AM

jackwong,,,,,, Bonuses are just that. Padding your time sheet for no reason is theft. Fatcats sitting back justifying stealing state money that could have went to fund more necessary things. Just because these men have specialized jobs dosent make them so almighty they get to fill in a blank check courtesy of Washington State taxpayers. 10 million ABOVE their regular over paid salaries. The average Washington State resident probably pays a few thousand a year in taxes. Add up how many taxpayers are negated from these men stealing money. Lets say we choose you,,, every dime you pay in taxes goes to one of these guys for a month or two of "overtime". You work a whole year to pay taxes just for a few hours of double time for these modern day pirates. How well does that sit with you jackwong? BTW jack,, if Microsoft caught one of their top level employees padding their time sheets in this manner I'll bey ya a million dollars that would be fired on the spot. That my friend is the problem

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bobknows said on June 25, 2010 at 6:46 AM

Its plain to see why Governess Haywire has to raise taxes on soda and "candy" to pay for her bloated and overpaid state workers Its time to get some decent management in Olympia. .

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unhappy said on June 25, 2010 at 6:38 AM

this is a huge waste of money when the poeple are being taxed... they need to control this spending,,,,,,,pritatize alcohol sells, and install speed cameras on I-5 and get rid of WSP, ,, the camera's can do the job cheaper.

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necaeosomnes said on June 25, 2010 at 6:16 AM

Privatize it all and pay them what private industry pays Chief Engineers. Whoops, looks like they won't have to count too much overtime to make that $150K !

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aziza said on June 25, 2010 at 6:11 AM

Okay- I've up till seeing an interview with Gov Gregoire, dismissed people's panning of her on these sites. I voted for her!! I felt she was the lesser of 2 evils. But after the interview when she was grilled about the ferry system, she was evasive, claiming nothing was illegal, and protecting her "friends"... I feel I should have checked "None of the above". We have SO many problems with funding being cut for the elderly, mentally ill, schools, police, fire, etc... and she supports her buddies raiding the tax payers $$$.

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sunlover said on June 25, 2010 at 12:43 AM

Most of these Chiefs are now in a position to retire. They don't care what they did because somehow they thought it justified to help themselves as others did before them. The future for others working is now looking less of a future. They were all buddies working together. Instead of changing they just played along. It continues to date. No one, including their CEO has done a darn thing to stop it. They were never questioned by upper management. They ran their own shop, called their own shots and then audited their own pay. 30 years of it or more. Other management didn't push them because of the underlying threat of tying the boats up. It goes way back. Staff Chiefs would sleep on board during their week on and then have someone knock on their private stateroom door, generating 8 hours of overtime daily to answer a question. Others would be called daily at home to answer a question, generating 8 hours of overtime daily. Most turned in 40 hours of overtime per week.

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crazytrain247 said on June 25, 2010 at 12:30 AM

wow! why is it every week or so you see another story on corrupt ferry workers. that's like 4 or 5 different stories now! amazing! what's with these corrupt and dishonest ferry workers? who do they think they are stealing taxpayers money for lowly civil service jobs. we should fire them all and replace them with trained monkeys. more honest and harder workers!

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jackwong said on June 24, 2010 at 11:53 PM

These benefits are needed to keep the hard-to-find talent. Here's question: So is Microsoft or Google wrong for giving their highest performers bonuses? Are the shareholders going to revolt? Answer this, King5!

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anonymoususer said on June 24, 2010 at 11:31 PM

Instead of making cuts, the wicked witch and her sock puppets will just raise taxes (again) to cover it.

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arcticfireguy said on June 24, 2010 at 11:05 PM

....no one will be fireD. These people were operating in accordance with their collective bargaining agreement with the State. Aren't Unions Great ..? They're just out there working hard and building America. :) Just like all of the other Federal, State, County, and City union employees. :)

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ansalon72 said on June 24, 2010 at 10:42 PM

Hopefully by the end of this investigation, more than a few people will be held accountable. So far, the only ones being held accountable are the taxpayers. I just watched the 11pm broadcast. I've also listened to it vacariously through Dori Monson's radio program. Well done Susannah. Under normal circumstances, reporters are impartial and at best, implacable. So this evening, it was to my great delight that Susannah completely called out Gregiore. I and probably 68% of the voters say, thank you.

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david_mack said on June 24, 2010 at 10:41 PM

I just hope WSF chooses to share this "new" overtime policy with the employees, NOT just Ms. Frame. I also see Ms. Frame has avoided pinning down the Rodgers/Schlief/Roden Good 'ole Boys club on FAASPA negotiations where they were awarded a 37% raise in wages for being "availible" to handle the employees urine samples, in trade for a 8 hour class on collection protocall. So the second highest paid "non-licenced" position @ WSF is a glorified urine sample certified tech, along with money handling duties ?? NICE work if you can get it or have a relative ( FBI ) get you on right out of High School, sounds Phelpsy ( fishy) to me. These are the same bargining unit members in supervisory positions that were mistakenly given UNEARNED vacation time from another bargining unit by mistake, but were told they didn't have to pay back, Ooops our mistake. Cost to taxpayers . . . wait for it Suzie . . . almost $100,000. Oh sorry, spread out over just 40 employees.

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rncdad said on June 24, 2010 at 10:33 PM

the reason the governor won't do any thing about this is she was bought and paid for by the unions.I have always said you get what you vote for untill the voters really understand how corrupt are public officials are this will continue.

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ferryferrymad said on June 24, 2010 at 10:28 PM

Dont forget that government employee retirement is based on annual compensation so these folks will be getting retirement forever in proportion to the inflated annual amounts they earned (sic). I think their retirement should be reduced to base level w/o the OT.

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clear2copy said on June 24, 2010 at 10:14 PM

Stop the gravy train, FFS.. you'd think they could actually LOWER the prices for a ferry trip if they stopped the corruption and systematic gouging of the citizens of this state.

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