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Federal agents declare popular toy gun a firearm

by CHRIS INGALLS / KING 5 News

Bio | Email | Follow: @cjingalls

KING5.com

Posted on February 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM

Updated Friday, Feb 4 at 2:25 PM

Is it a toy or a dangerous weapon?

The KING 5 Investigators have obtained government documents in which federal agents declare that a popular type of toy is a “firearm”.

Even though agents have reached this conclusion, we’ve found that there is a strange secrecy in the air when it comes to informing the public about this potential threat.

It all stems from the public outcry that started when agents seized a shipment of these “toys” at the Port of Tacoma last year. The “toys” are air guns, known as airsoft, which are wildly popular with kids. They shoot plastic BB’s using air or gas. 

“The way you tell it's not real is the orange tip,” said 11-year-old Peter Crites, as he played an airsoft game with friends recently at a Seattle park. “It's illegal not to have an orange tip on it."

But now, orange tip or not, federal agents say some airsoft gun replicas have crossed the line from make believe to the real thing.

Internal ATF memo

KING 5 obtained a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms internal memo and other documents under the Freedom of Information Act.

ATF said it "evaluated several of these air guns" and determined they are "firearms", and some even "machine guns," in the eyes of the law.

ATF said thousands of air guns meeting that definition have been imported into the United States.
There was an outcry early last year on the Internet and talk radio when ATF took its first public shots at airsoft guns.

Critics demanded to know why the government was targeting "toys."  Records we obtained show that even three United States senators wanted explanations from ATF after agents at the Port of Tacoma seized an incoming shipment of airsoft guns.

The high-end, all metal guns cost about $400 each. Air guns like those seized in Tacoma are produced by a variety of foreign and domestic manufacturers who emphasize the realism of their products.

But could they actually fire bullets?

Testing the guns

“That looks like a real firearm. If someone pointed that at me I would shoot them," said Wade Gaughran, the owner of Wade’s Eastside Guns in Bellevue. He has a staff of gunsmiths who service AR-15 rifles, which are what the replica guns seized by the ATF are modeled after.  

Gaughran agreed to analyze an airsoft manufactured by the same company that produced those air guns.

"I can see where the problem is,” Gaughran said as he looked at the airsoft that KING 5 purchased on the Internet. “They have gone to a level of realism that I have not seen before."

It's what inside that Gaughran found most disturbing.

"This actually looks like an auto sear out of a machine gun," he said. He found internal parts that could allow someone to make a fully functioning lower receiver, the only part of the gun that requires a background check to buy.

"In all firearms, the receiver is the registered or controlled part," said Gaughran. “We could set in the trigger parts with very little alteration and you would get a weapon that would fire."

A converted airsoft receiver could be mounted onto many powerful real guns.

Even worse, it would be untraceable. On a real AR-15 lower receiver, there is a serial number and markings that help law enforcement trace its history if used in a crime. Investigators often use these numbers to link a gun to a suspect. The airsoft receiver is unmarked and untraceable.

While ATF sources and documents cannot point to one incident where an airsoft receiver was used in a crime, documents received from KING 5’s public records requests do list a half-dozen cases in which criminals paid top dollar for untraceable firearm receivers.

At Wade’s Gunshop, we asked the gunsmith to try to fire live rounds from our airsoft. Gaughran said he believes the average person couldn’t do it.

"What we were trying to do is find out how easy it would be for a kid with a drill or a criminal with some common tools and that wasn't the case,” said Gaughran, explaining that his gunsmith could not make the weapon fire with a minimal amount of tinkering.

In its labs, ATF said it did fire rounds from several converted airsoft guns including one of the Tacoma guns.

“If the ATF was able to make this fire, I wouldn't dispute that," said Gaughran.

ATF response

While ATF has ruled that guns like this are firearms, it appears to still be stinging from the criticism.

ATF refused to explain on camera what its ruling means to people who buy or possess these guns. The public records we received are heavily censored. Even those marked "media plan" are blacked-out.

When it comes to airsoft,  America's gun police are decidedly gun-shy.

ATF did issue a written statement to KING 5, however, in which the bureau said it has been working with manufacturers to make sure their air guns are legal.

The Taiwanese manufacturer of the guns seized in Tacoma has not been charged, and did not respond to the KING 5 Investigators repeated emails seeking comment.

For Parents: Wondering if you should be worried about the airsoft gun your child has?  Click here for more information.  We asked an expert to explain what parents should look for in their child's toy. 

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 47

zulu2222 said on April 7, 2011 at 7:32 PM

@goldiemae hahaha oh how i love this... i have used and dissasembled these rifles before and they are internally similar to the real steel however when it fires a real round (if that is even possible to make happen due to the fact that the only part you would have left after converting it into a fire arm would be the furniture and maybe small parts of the body) it will explode when it fires, the user would be killed and the round most likely would not fire properly or would not be at all accurate. you could never fire it more then once which is what the ATF said before. so obviously they are still covering for that idiots mistake or they really are a pointless branch or police.

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zulu2222 said on April 7, 2011 at 7:25 PM

ok so here is the thing this is total bs. the ATF is covering for its mistake before. Again they fail to prove that it can be converted. this is bs because we pay for them to do this and they waste our money. im not taking anyones political side here but look at the facts. 1) The ATF has failed to provide evidence that they were converted. 2) The ATF has made this mistake before. 3) The metal used to build the guns can not be used in a real firearm due to the fact that the pressure of the round firing would cause the gun itself to explode. 4) The lab reports the ATF will not give out. 5) The idiot ATF agent who examined the original gun suspected of being converted did not know how to operate the weapon (he inserted the magazine incorrectly, a mistake only idiots make, and he should have experiance with the m4 system so... thats pathetic) i use MilSim (form of airsoft) as a form of training and for fun and we are extremely careful with these weapons. The ATF has failed to work again.

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underserf said on March 29, 2011 at 6:35 AM

Try carrying one down the street @ 2 a.m. the day after a cop is killed or walk into a school carrying one ANYTIME. I'd rather my local cops gun down an idiot waving a plastic AK around than have them WAIT to see if it's real...

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reborn said on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

@skok_cush : You honestly believe that? Please re-think that statement. As a liberal and someone who plays Airsoft, it's my opinion that our ATF should have better things to do than wasting our Tax dollars attacking airsoft.

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olybears said on February 7, 2011 at 12:06 AM

@shedboy I completely agree with you. I mean hey, people can make a gun out of a pen, should we consider those firearms too? No joke, look it up.

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konner said on February 5, 2011 at 12:14 PM

ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE OF OUR GOVERNMENT HAVING TO MUCH POWER. SOON WE WILL BE RUSSIA!!!

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wouldibsu said on February 4, 2011 at 10:50 PM

Anybody that would wave one of these around where everybody present didn't know it was a non-lethal replica, needs to be at least winged.

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shedboy said on February 4, 2011 at 8:59 PM

@goldiemae I suppose it could be used as a suicide devise..but I think to get the damage a suicide bomber would be after...waving a gun shaped bomb around might get him shot before he can find out if his toy gun will work or not. @starteck81I have not taken one apart, would love the opportunity though. I wouldn't mind owning one, actually...the real one. But...I don't think this is an issue of traceability or how close it looks like the real thing or if a skilled craftsman could interchange parts.. I think this is more along the lines of fear mongering.

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gwbush said on February 4, 2011 at 4:43 PM

i bet they still allow them to be sold in washington state. remember "they need the sales tax revenue" thats the same excuse that they said that being illegal alien was ok, aslong as you pay your sales tax. the still arn't smart enough to figure out how much it costs them in food stamps, doctors bills for child birth.

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goldiemae said on February 4, 2011 at 4:27 PM

shedboy-ever heard of suicide bombers? They don't really care if it blows up in their own faces, or those of the people surrounding them. Bullets aren't the only projectiles that can cause fatal damage either. "Look it has an orange tip, it's just a toy"- BOOM. Whoops. Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from...thinking like a fairly reasonable human being. As we saw with the two young men, one in Portland, one in Arizona...folks who do things like that, don't think like reasonable human beings. It pays to look at an issue from all sides before dismissing it.

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starteck81 said on February 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM

@shedboy, Have you ever taken apart an AR-15/M4/M-16? The barrel, chamber, bolt carrier, and firing pin are all part of the upper. The upper contains the entire force of the propellant as it is burned inside the cartridge casing. You can buy an upper section of an AR-15 separately from the toy that will handle the pressure of the bullet being discharged just fine. So if you can modify the receiver of these toy guns to hold an upper that is meant to fire a .223 bullet then there is a real problem because then you have gun that is much more difficult to trace. The ATF may well be blowing things out of proportion if it takes considerable work to retool the receiver to accept a real upper but that is different than what you're arguing.

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shedboy said on February 4, 2011 at 2:33 PM

@goldiemae except it blows up the guys face pulling the trigger. The actual lead bullet could go in any direction. So if your logic is "it will work once, mission accomplished" then no...the shooter dies and the bullet flies hard right and kills his accomplice. Even if these toys were poured in the same molds as the real thing, they are made from cheap, soft metal at best. The magazine and all moving/firing parts are designed around a little plastic BB. Come on folks...use your noggins!

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trojan33 said on February 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM

With everything else that is going on, they spend time on this? Sounds like they have too much time on their hands or they have priority problems.

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goldiemae said on February 4, 2011 at 2:09 PM

Actually, Shedboy, it seems to me that if it would be untraceable and self-destruct...that might be just what someone would want if they only needed it to shoot the one time.

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skok_cush said on February 4, 2011 at 1:34 PM

Why do all these mass shootings and homicides happen at "Gun Free Zones"(schools,malls,whatever). . . . .why have we never heard of a mass shooting at the local gun range?

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hoped said on February 4, 2011 at 12:19 PM

Humm the fear mongers are at it again.. there is no such thing as a toy gun. Sadly only thing children learn from a toy weapon is lock an load an your fears will be less. The truth being ,the worse thing a human can do .. end a life in anger Don' t expound on your fears, but your hopes for a peaceful prosperous long life. Yea there are sick souls out there who's fears prevent them from understanding and for those we weep. As the news clearly shows we have tried it the NRA way and it didn't work yesterday and won't work tomorrow, except to promote more fear.

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shedboy said on February 4, 2011 at 12:19 PM

@spack005 So your telling me a pot metal "replica" could handle the force of firing a real bullet if dropped into the real thing. I think not. I was a machinist for 20 years and scratch built several gun barrels and components. Many of the pieces had to be heat treated and all the tolerances were critical. And then I ask ..WHY? If it's solely for traceability...grind the numbers off the real thing and live to fire more then one round.

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noskills said on February 4, 2011 at 12:15 PM

I could care less about whether it can fire real bullets or not. What I dont like is that this toy looks extremely realistic. I can so see someone getting shot because they pointed this at someone who thought it was a real gun.

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nwoisgoingdown said on February 4, 2011 at 12:15 PM

One more step toward the New World Order, tell me, are you ready?

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shedboy said on February 4, 2011 at 12:09 PM

"(fīr'ärm') pronunciation n. A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant." No "explosive charge" = no firearm. This is just more paranoia fear mongering.

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spack005 said on February 4, 2011 at 12:07 PM

@ Shedboy: Here is where you are misguided. All of parts except the lower receiver, the part where the magazine and the trigger sit, can be bought online, and not traceable, and no serial numbers. The part that is most important is the lower receiver, with the markings required by law. The airsoft guns are such a realistic copy, that with a little tinkering, you could put the airsoft lower receiver onto a real upper receiver, with the chamber and the barrel. You COULD fire a real .223 cartridge out of that creation.

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justjack said on February 4, 2011 at 12:01 PM

It is NOT a real firearm !!

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shedboy said on February 4, 2011 at 11:42 AM

ok...so lets see the barrel of this thing handle a bullet flying down it. Just because you can make the firing mechanism function, the chamber and barrel would explode in your face if you tried to use anything with gun powder. This "expert" does not know how a gun works. when a bullet is chambered, it is surrounded tightly by a lot of steel so the bullet casing doesn't explode. You could do the same thing with any pellet gun...except it would explode. When I was 10 years old I had a Daisy BB gun that was a replica of a Winchester Carbine. Sitting next to my Dads real one it was hard to tell the difference. Guess we were just smarter back then....and didn't have cops that shoot first, look later.

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imperious1 said on February 4, 2011 at 11:09 AM

Talk about out of control. You might be able to put someones eye out with one of these, but it is definitely not a real gun.

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aziza said on February 4, 2011 at 10:41 AM

The same people who are touting their 2nd amendment rights and frothing at the mouths over this story are probably the same ones who will blame the police or other gun owner who shoots up some 12 year old for pointing this "toy" at the law or property owner.

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nwoisgoingdown said on February 4, 2011 at 10:25 AM

This is absolutely absurb when we have a bunch of power hungry cowboys running the show. Firearms? They cant even kill, how so do you call it a firearm? The only reason this is happening is the the ever watchful government can bust you for less wrong doing. Easier to get you into jail. If any of you feds who have anything to do with this amendment just happen to read this, understand: sovereignty will previal, and the world will know the truth about the corrupt governments around the world.

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kamani said on February 4, 2011 at 9:57 AM

The next thing the ATF should do then is put an orange bumper on the Chevy Volt; not a real car.

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scott_bellevue said on February 4, 2011 at 9:52 AM

When you play with fire you get burned.

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stryker said on February 4, 2011 at 9:40 AM

I painted the tip of my .45 orange and now nobody ever bothers me.

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ss427 said on February 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM

What many here are not considering is that these "toys" are virtually identical to the real thing. These toys are not a second amendment issue. They're marketed as toys to CHILDREN. Most any child who points one of these at a law enforcement officer, will not consume their next meal.

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goldiemae said on February 4, 2011 at 9:19 AM

“The way you tell it's not real is the orange tip,” Seems like an awfully small thing to stake your life on...either that someone will see it and not shoot you, or that someone hasn't painted the end of a real one orange and will use it to shoot you. Toys should look like toys, that's just common sense. Although the more I here "libs" and "conservatives" squabbling, the more convinced I am that common sense is truly dead.

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ohcriminy said on February 4, 2011 at 9:11 AM

Guns don't kill. People kill people with guns.

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sounguru said on February 4, 2011 at 9:03 AM

I can see the next investigative report from King 5 TV .... Trees innocent growing things or deadly weapons..... King 5 TV has obtained documents showing that a tree can be turned into a deadly weapon known as a bat. We will investigate this and other reports of people being hurt or even killed by trees at 11. We will also look at government plans to save you from harm by destroying all wood products to protect you and your family.

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a6chris said on February 4, 2011 at 8:45 AM

what he said.... freedomfrank said on February 4, 2011 at 7:00 AM

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skok_cush said on February 4, 2011 at 8:36 AM

slowly but surely turning US into Soviet Union/Nazi Germany, just like the libs yern for. The only Freedom anyone worships anymore, is Freedom from responsibility.

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skok_cush said on February 4, 2011 at 8:28 AM

You Vill Obey. . . . .

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olybears said on February 4, 2011 at 8:16 AM

The ATF and gunsmiths have not spent enough time investigating to declare these toy guns as firearms. I've been around these types of replica guns all my life and they've posed no harm with the right amount of safety precautions. Even with a high-end airsoft gun, the receiver wouldn't be able to take the pressure of a real gun let alone be modified. Most of the gun is made of high quality plastic and partly metal for "added" realism. But, with that, you can't possibly make a FUCTIONAL automatic gun from this. A real firearm magazine won't even fit into the airsoft rifle for the inside is shaped differently from the real deal. Next time they should spend more time before saying such huge accusations.

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tabithastevens said on February 4, 2011 at 8:04 AM

To me, it doesn't matter if it can be used as a REAL gun or not. In a tense situation, it wouldn't be that unusual for someone to mistake it as a real gun and shoot and kill the stupid kid who pointed it, leaving his/her stupid parents grieving and wailing WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GOD????????? IT WASN'T A REAL GUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!! And blaming the police and everyone else for their child getting killed when it was THEY who didn't use their brains in the first place.

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freedomfrank said on February 4, 2011 at 8:00 AM

I made a gun from PVC that fires potatoes,,,,

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dakotanative said on February 4, 2011 at 7:54 AM

I have a pile if scrap metal behind the barn that could become a real gun if a professional spent enough time with the right tools.

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tootoo said on February 4, 2011 at 7:32 AM

Oh yeah, 2nd amendment baby!

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glock2117 said on February 4, 2011 at 7:31 AM

sure the ATF got it to fire they are supposed experts in firearms. this is a joke king 5 is just playing the gun control card as they always do and like someone else already said if someone did get this to fire it would take a hell of a lot of time and money and probably after firing 2 shots the second shot would blow this cheaply made partial metal toy up in there face

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robertlhartman said on February 4, 2011 at 6:42 AM

I have a feeling that the ATF is so scared about these things because mexican gangs probably bought 100 containers of these airsoft guns but it turned out they were not airsoft guns. I'm sure at first glance of a container full of these an inspector could not tell one way or another, so to classify them as firearms in the first place would allow mandatory minute close inspection, just incase the manufacturer accidentally made these toys into fully functioning automatic weapons.

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pixelater said on February 4, 2011 at 2:57 AM

Teaching your kids that guns of any kind are toys promotes unsafe gun habits.

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clear2copy said on February 4, 2011 at 2:26 AM

you have to be kidding.. well..here they come. Out of the woodwork..

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ramac7716 said on February 4, 2011 at 12:57 AM

Just like when people went out and got paint ball guns and shot a people a few people give it a bad name but look at kids now days not real bright

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sounguru said on February 4, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Sadly a case of Hype once again. The ATF retracted their claim that the model airsoft gun in question could be converted to fire live rounds easily. (5 minute search of the net would have found it) It would take a highly qualified gunsmith with the right tools to make the conversion and the cost would be much higher buying a stolen gun off the street. Even if it could be done the lower receiver would not last for more than 2 or 3 rounds before it failed since it is not built to the standard required in a real firearm. I really wish that news organizations would do more research and look at both sides of the story before throwing out hyped up stuff like this. There is a large airsoft community that has safe, organized, and promotes proper gun safety even though we are not using real guns but replicas. Airsoft is a great sport for both young and old a like, but sadly as with anything a few bad apples have put a black eye on it.

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