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Military ammunition discovered under Seattle cruise ship terminal

by SUSANNAH FRAME / KING 5 News

Bio | Email | Follow: @SFrameK5

KING5.com

Posted on October 27, 2010 at 11:01 PM

Updated Thursday, Oct 28 at 5:26 PM

SEATTLE -- The KING 5 Investigators have uncovered a multi-agency operation involving an unusual and potentially dangerous finding in the waters of Elliott Bay. Police and military divers have discovered World War II-era and possibly even older ammunition underneath the new high-traffic cruise ship terminal in Seattle.

There's no evidence of any imminent danger to the community with the discovery of the old ammunition. However, the ammo brought to the surface did contain explosives and no one knows for sure what’s still down there.

The Port of Seattle Police Dive Team was the first to make the discovery in April, right before the cruise ship season started.

They were conducting routine homeland security sweeps under and around Pier 91. That's where the new Smith Cove Cruise Terminal is located in the Ballard-Magnolia area.

The divers found empty World War II shell casings which are considered harmless. They made a similar finding in May.

We found things got far more serious in September. Divers made four different discoveries.

Sources tell us that besides the empty shell casings, divers brought up training rounds and projectiles ranging from 20 millimeter to 90 millimeter rounds. Most of what they found did not contain explosives. But according to records we've obtained, at least a few of those retrieved in September have been "live rounds containing h-e (high explosives) material."

"It absolutely needs to come out. There's no excuse to leave it there. It's unwise to leave it there,” said Jim Barton.

Barton is a world-renowned expert in underwater munitions. KING 5 flew him in from Virginia to review our findings. He says it's unlikely something would go wrong, but there is a risk. 

“It's dangerous. Its explosives, its munitions. They're designed to kill people and they're pretty much safe to be around if you don't disturb them,” said Barton.

How did it get there?

The ammunition is likely there because Pier 91 served as a navy supply depot from World War II to 1971. Warships including the USS Missouri and military transport vessels came and went for years.  It was common during the war for ammunition to be accidentally dropped into the water at military installations like this one.

"Wherever munitions have been handled in the past, they have rolled off the pier, they've been dropped out of cargo net. It's perfectly normal, it's expected. What is unexpected is that there is a cruise ship terminal built directly above where some of these munitions are,” said Barton.

Fast forward thirty years. Powerful cruise ships began using the piers in the same area with enough force to unearth what was hidden below. The ships use propellers called bow thrusters which create a powerful wake while maneuvering the ship into port.

“It can actually move loose munitions around, which is not a good idea,” said Barton.

When the munitions were first discovered, the year's record-breaking cruise ship season was still in full swing.

KING 5 has obtained records showing that on at least two occasions in September, live munitions were brought to the surface when a cruise ship was docked above. One was Holland America Line’s ms Zaandam and the other ms Volendam.

In fact, five ships came and went at Pier 91 during the last two weeks of the cruise ship season after the discovery of explosive materials.

The Port of Seattle, which owns Pier 91, tells us they didn't shut down any operations because the Coast Guard and Navy deemed it safe.

Jim Barton believes it wasn't safe enough. 

"Any kind of heat, shock and friction can cause these things to detonate. Now if left undisturbed, they might sit down there for another hundred years and never ever have an incident, but you're adding a new dynamic when you bring in a cruise ship,” said Barton.

What’s happening now?

We’ve learned that just last week the Pentagon officially deemed the waters around Pier 91 a site the army must fully survey and possibly clean up. The Port of Seattle, the Navy, the Army and the Coast Guard are all involved with mapping out a plan which they call a top priority.

They’re working fast because, if a clean-up is necessary, they want it done before the cruise ship season starts again in April.

We asked the four cruise lines that use the Smith Cove terminal about their reaction to our findings. No one would comment.
 

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 27

mosin8r said on October 28, 2010 at 8:59 PM

For brentallica: The "cooking" has NOTHING to do with heat, EVERYTHING to do with CHEMICAL REACTIONS. Just try putting table salt in a car battery that's about 34 degrees Fahrenheit, and if you survive the chlorine gas, tell me again about 50 degree water and how it would prevent a chemical reaction!

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fltpath said on October 28, 2010 at 6:27 PM

King5..relax...munitions underwater are very, very safe, hence the method of disposal. Now, what is important, is when you bring them up. We have a marine conservation lab located here in the Puget Sound area, that specializes in marine artifacts. Items such as the canon recently found near Canon Beach, Oregon, had these been loaded, could have been a problem when exposed to oxygen, much like the munitions found at Smith Cove. The reality is, everyone who deals with these situations is well aware of the issues, and how to deal with the potentials. Simply keeping the artifact submerged solves the problem, which is why the preferred method of dealing with the situation is to leave the munitions in situ, or in place. If you really want to explore a serious situation, report on the contamination that is "cleaned up' from the Tacoma waterway, and dumped off the south end of Vashon Island, contaminating the entire area past cleanup levels.

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greghertel said on October 28, 2010 at 5:21 PM

Come on you guys, shells don't get more explosive with age and saturation, they get less explosive. As for the environmentalists saying that these compounds are killing wildlife, based on what? The video of the fish swimming on the bottom there? Explosives are nitrates and the worst that they will do is cause an algae bloom. I've disposed of old gun powder by sprinkling it on the grass. It's harmless. The metals would be toxic but only in a very localized area. No worse that the bottom paint on the ship in fact. And where did you get that nut case "expert" who you flew in. I bet he makes his living testifying against ammunition makers. Really thin stuff here.

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jimmy29s said on October 28, 2010 at 5:14 PM

i wonder if these rounds are made for underwater use because anyone that know stuff about ammo for guns if you shoot a gun in to the water the bullet will lose power pretty quick now with explosives there probably a little safer underwater than sitting on top of the dock and if they been sitting there since ww2 and there's been no problem so far they just need to clean it up and quit trying scare people

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freedomfrank said on October 28, 2010 at 4:16 PM

However, the ammo brought to the surface did contain explosives,,, REALLY?????? Explosives in ammunition???? Who woulda thunk it? Thanks for the scare tactic there KING 5. Great job.

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skippythedog said on October 28, 2010 at 3:42 PM

...Discovered during a Homeland Security sweep huh? It appears that we are our own worst enemy after all......

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skippypotpiebaby said on October 28, 2010 at 3:20 PM

They did that so a ship got new munitions. If the navy is at a dock in ww2 you can bet more will pop up from time to time

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garyb2012 said on October 28, 2010 at 3:10 PM

Barton is just looking to make a buck and the news is helping him by making sensational accusations. That ammo is safer if left underwater and allowing nature to nutralize the HE content, it gets dangerous when exposed to the air which is what Barton wants to get paid for doing.

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dakota001 said on October 28, 2010 at 2:57 PM

@klondiko, yes it still happens today, people in the military are human and they do make mistakes. But they are also out there away from their loved ones protecting YOU. They are not out there for "big business". And by the way, "big business" benefits YOU too, by providing the highest standard of living in the world for YOU to live in.

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zaxxon7469 said on October 28, 2010 at 11:51 AM

This is a good story, more indepth investigation than the normal 5 line teaser, please whatch us on the boob tube to get more info.

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taxed said on October 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM

Whata blast. More tax dollars.

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klondiko said on October 28, 2010 at 11:30 AM

Pretty shoddy handling of taxpayer $$$. Sounds like it still happens today. No wonder big business loves war.

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cjcampbell said on October 28, 2010 at 11:15 AM

Okay. Suppose a 90 mm HE shell finally explodes down there after more than 30 years. Would anybody notice? All these scare stories have lots of fluff built into them. It doesn't seem to me that we are talking about something that is going to damage a cruise ship. What do the physicists say? Will it be more dangerous to try to remove this stuff than it is to just leave it there?

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gracer said on October 28, 2010 at 10:48 AM

Umm... so you solicited records when doing your job. And you mark this as some sort of cover up? Sensationalism strikes again. Just because you weren't "informed", doesn't make it a cover-up, nor does it make it more than just regular news. Sticking a fancy label on it doesn't change the facts. It's an issue, it was being addressed and shame on King5 for their continued use of sensationalism to sell advertising and higher ratings.

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jrw3444 said on October 28, 2010 at 10:42 AM

It's not a discovery, but has been known of for decades. The same thing applies to the former Sandpoint Naval Air Station. With cruise ships docking off Alaskan way, it does need cleaning up.

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avianrescue said on October 28, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Dear King 5 You are idiots. That's right, sensational sells even if it's false. I'll put my money on our military experts any day.

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shedboy said on October 28, 2010 at 9:52 AM

"Wherever munitions have been handled in the past, they have rolled off the pier, they've been dropped out of cargo net. It's perfectly normal, it's expected." So for you folks on Whidbey Island or living near Indian Island, I'd stop worrying about terrorists and start worrying about butter fingered Military staff. "Sarge, we drop another load of those drone missles overboard, should we send divers?" Sarge: "Nah, we have plenty more."

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ericks said on October 28, 2010 at 9:23 AM

Interesting that nothing went off during the pier reconstruction and pile driving that went on for months during the construction of the cruise terminal....

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deepkeel said on October 28, 2010 at 9:16 AM

Puget Sound is cold, 42-45 degrees, which means lower corrosion rates than say, Pearl Harbor, which hovers around 71-72 degrees or even higher, it's so shallow. And some of that ammo isn't necessarily WWII vintage, it's possibly Viet Nam vintage - which would be not all that old. It needs to be brought up and safely disposed of, regardless. The ordnance dumping sights marked on charts all over Puget Sound are marked for a reason, civ61. It means "Not safe! Don't anchor here!"

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davesea said on October 28, 2010 at 8:46 AM

Don't believe the military. They don't know anything about old ammunition. Some "expert" from Virginia knows way more then our service members. BTW, put some old ammo in salt water for 60 plus years and see what happens to it. The old shells are made of brass...it goes away. Remember the old saying "keep your power dry".. now why do you suppose they said that?

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stryker said on October 28, 2010 at 7:36 AM

"The KING 5 Investigators have uncovered a multi-agency operation"... So King5 is saying that there was a coverup in the first place that they discovered???? Public info that this was happening. Heard about it before.

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civ61 said on October 28, 2010 at 7:11 AM

Anybody seen what has happen to anything left in salt water? It corrodes! I would imagine that after 50 years in the waters of Puget Sound, there really isn't much left to explode. Take a look at any navigation chart, there is explosive dumping sites all over the navigable waters of Puget sound.

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brentallica said on October 28, 2010 at 7:01 AM

In the 50 degree waters of PS, it would be nigh impossible to "cook" off a round. However, it should be cleaned up. Any sort of accidental discharge could not happen.

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logic14 said on October 28, 2010 at 6:35 AM

Another NON-story by Channel Five.....You all tried real hard to make it one. Good idea to try and run what little business we have left in Washington out! What are you doing working for Gregoire and P. Murray!!! Building planes might cause jobs....oooo scary!!!

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mosin8r said on October 28, 2010 at 6:24 AM

Back in 1993, I found a .38 SPL cartridge while cleaning someone's backyard. It was perfectly safe until about two minutes after I tossed it in a construction site dumpster; then, POW! It "cooked off", as some old ammo is likely to do. Like to see a large H-E round do that under a ship? I don't think so!

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dasindog said on October 28, 2010 at 12:27 AM

There was no danger the day before, not yesterday, nor the day before... why say there MIGHT be a danger now? ignorance is bliss.

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brewster said on October 27, 2010 at 11:42 PM

Just talking about the cruise ships, all the factory trawlers and the other fishing vessels, tug boats and fuel barges that occupy pier 90 and 91 doesn't count?

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