Wood stove owner fighting burn fine

shemomo said on March 30, 2010 at 2:24 PM

Christinam - I would definitely appeal that... I was specifically told by a Puget Sound Clean Air inspector that the process was as mentioned before... however, that was well over a year ago, and I believe the rules may have changed since then... you should look into the process for sure... fyi - the inspectors are not lay persons... they are professionals and I believe that the opacity has to be confirmed before the fine is issued... Good luck

christinam said on March 24, 2010 at 9:35 PM

FYI, for the person who believes that you get two warnings and only on the third strike you are fined. That is not the case, we got notice and a fine from a one time occurance. We burned in our stove because our electricity bill is so high when we use our indoor heaters instead. We had no idea that our stove was putting out more than 20% opacity and still am not sure how the layperson could tell by looking what the opacity output of there stoves are. We are trying to get by on a single income as my husband was laid off in August. I tried to apply for financial assitance in getting a certified wood stove insert after we got notice of the output opacity from our stove. The qualify for assitance we would have to make a combined income of $15 / hr for a 3 person family. So although we cannot pay our bills and are having a rough time we do not qualify based on those standards. Well we have 30 days to come up with an "extra" $750 and extremely upset that a warning was not issued.

tfstopburningnow said on March 19, 2010 at 8:01 AM

Right. Let's joke about ruining people's health. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! LOL!

daisydog said on March 19, 2010 at 2:59 AM

zenjim- I owe you an apology....A simply fantastic post! I first thought, "yeah , right" smoke reader, man is this guy a loon or what? Then I googled a few things and all your stuff is spot on! I am simply amazed the govt. puts so much into being a "certified" smoke reader! It still seams kinda comical though-- but hey! If it puts food on your table..... I have tried to duplicate efforts, briefly, to make smoke as described in the original story...... So far, for me to make smoke that thick, as described, I have to burn two things, in a relatively large quantity in a 4 foot wide burn/ BBQ pit....... fresh pine needles, or scotch-broom! I do live out in the middle of nowhere, and not in city limits, so my only neighbors right now are an owl in the early evening, and the occasional deer, both of whom who tried to call me to complain of the smoke......

tfstopburningnow said on March 18, 2010 at 9:08 PM

OK. Free to poison your neighbor. Great!

momuddog said on March 18, 2010 at 7:54 PM

Land of the free, right.

shemomo said on March 18, 2010 at 6:52 AM

Daisy dog as stated above I did talk with the man there but my concern was ignored... also, as stated, the smoke was so thick I could not see the street and I actually had started to call 911 thinking it was a fire when the smoke cleared a little and I saw the man - this happened prior to the certified stove being installed. Regarding ongoing smoke, as you say "when the stove is operating properly...." The grandmother mentioned said she had wanted to talk to the owner but her neighbors down the street discouraged her because they knew she would not get a good reaction. Sad but true, there are sometimes people you just cannot talk to about concerns.

daisydog said on March 18, 2010 at 4:00 AM

When a "certified" wood burning stove or insert is working properly there is no visible smoke- once it reaches it's operating temperature. Prior to that, of course there is smoke. Can't see the street from the house, and it's only 20 feet away? Uh, where you looking through a wall? I mean C'mon people here is the problem: You have forgotten how to talk. Talk to the neighbor if you have a problem. why is it non of the stories mention: "well I went over and spoke to...."?

shemomo said on March 17, 2010 at 9:57 PM

By the way... there is no fine immediately... first incidence the owners are given educational materials (these were dumped in my mail box by the guy as I guess they assumed it was me since I had mentioned the smoke bothering me to him - however there was at least one other complaint that time)... second time is a warning that further confirmed reports could lead to a fine... only the third time is there a fine. I did not report it this time... don't know who did, but a woman down the street had asked me how I tolerated it as her granddaughter had asthma and was badly affected - likely she reported it, and frankly due to the health issue in her family who can blame her? Sorry folks... I do, however, think the fine is too high, at least for the first fine.

shemomo said on March 17, 2010 at 9:26 PM

I am one of several neighbors that reported this... but that was well over a year ago when it was happening almost daily... haven't noticed it much this year. The smoke has been so bad in the past that children had to cover their noses walking by, a man working on a water pipe replacement had to leave the job as it affected him so badly, Puget Sound Clean Air said it was one of the worst they had ever seen, and a couple of neighbors with lung problems were badly affected. A couple of years ago it was so thick I couldn't see the street 20 feet from my house - a man there said that was how they clean the chimney, I think prior to the certified stove install. It is not the only source of heat - as she states "it is the most economical and efficient way to heat her home". It affected my breathing badly for several winters when I went outside and I had to keep all windows closed. So, before you start calling people clowns, spend a few days breathing this into your lungs!

inforelife said on March 17, 2010 at 8:13 PM

The article never mentioned if it's her only source of heat.

angelainbothell said on March 17, 2010 at 8:01 PM

Any number of my neighbors have woodstoves pumping out dark smoke, every time I drive past them - in neighborhoods where other heating sources are available (electricity, natural gas or LP). So.....they should all be taxed, I mean fined, a whole bunch of money? Riiiiiiight. Opacity. Riiiiight. Sounds like an excuse to pick this poor woman's pockets.

trojan33 said on March 17, 2010 at 6:12 PM

My neighbors wood stove is so bad I can't use my basement for the winter because of all the smoke. I have sealed it professionally twice and it doesnt help. Also, anybody that goes outside for even a minute comes back in smelling like a campfire. I'm wish I had someone to call.

zenjim said on March 17, 2010 at 6:12 PM

Human eyeball "opacity" tests are highly subjective. Especially from a house chimney in a residential neighborhood, this is at best inaccurate. As a former air pollution control official, and an EPA-Certified Smoke Reader (for 10 years), I would never have cited this homeowner with an EPA and DOE certified wood stove based solely on alleged opacity violations! What were the particulate, CO and toxic levels? Of course these were not obtained because opacity is considered to be an indication of unmeasured pollutants. What were the atmospheric conditions, time of day, dew point? Woodsmoke in cul-de-sacs and other urban setting can be a nuisance, and can adversely affect sensitive folks, but, a $750 fine is outrageous and unscientific. This homeowner needs to demand better evidence of harm due to her emissions. Bad, subjective "science" monetary penalties = Bad Public Policy! Who "complained"? Jim Tucker (former) Public Affairs Administrator Puget Sound Air Pollution Control Agency

whomadewho said on March 17, 2010 at 5:39 PM

Claudia I wish you well and I'm happy that you are standing up for your rights. There isn't much thinking here,,,, you have a cartoonish neighbor that pitched a complaint in the first place. Then the over paid AIR Police show up and you are in violation. Can you emagine ? Me thinks that a 20 percent look see at the ' Opacity" of a burning stove is the work of one clown of a neighbor ! Do Not pay this fine and go to court over it. The Gov. pays them all that money ( our Tax Money ) to set and watch you start a fire for 6 minutes and they are going to nail ya for $750.00 ?????? Don't you dare,, :-)

bobknows said on March 17, 2010 at 4:59 PM

Governess Haywire says that there is no place to cut the budget. Here is another government agency that obviously has way too many people wasting time and tax money. Give me 5 minutes with Gov. Haywire's budget and it would be balanced without tax increases. Give me another 5 minutes and blithering idiots would not be wasting tax money wandering around inspecting people's homes.