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Radio 'dead zone' worries some SPD officers

by JIM FORMAN / KING 5 News

Bio | Email | Follow: @Jimformanking5

KING5.com

Posted on February 18, 2010 at 11:14 PM

SEATTLE - Some Seattle Police officers assigned to patrol the downtown bus tunnel are privately worried that Mayor Mike McGinn's push to get officers to beef up King County deputies is putting their safety at risk.

The mayor offered his officers to King County following the videotaped beating of a teenage girl.

The issue KING 5 News has learned involves the possibility that if there is trouble in the tunnel, officers may not be able to radio for help.

There is a flaw in the radio system - a dead zone where SPD radios cannot hit the repeater towers, a critical step in their transmissions being heard.

King County deputies which until now had exclusive jurisdiction over the transit tunnel use a radio system designed to work underground.

On the other hand, Seattle's police radios were never designed to work in the concrete confines of the tunnel.

In an emergency, the officer could be all alone.

In the wake of the beating, some commuters are concerned.

"If they can't call for help, what's the point?" asked one rider waiting for the bus with her two children.

But a department spokesman tells KING 5 News that the highest levels of the department are aware of the situation, that experts ran a communications sweep of the tunnel, and that analysis found a dead spot in the tunnel.

SPD is calling it an "electronic issue" and not just a police radio issue because neither department radios nor civillian cell phones were able to get a signal.

Spokesman Jeff Kappel says the department is "working on it as we speak."

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 20

copperheadcsa said on February 20, 2010 at 12:46 PM

Ah! Here's where I correct myself. The solution I suggested earlier may have already been installed by KCSO. If the Sheriff's have non-trunked portables with a underrground repeater tie-in to the trunked system, then their radios would work in the dead zone while SPD's wouldn't.

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copperheadcsa said on February 20, 2010 at 12:37 PM

mmresn - As I wrote above, the KCSO radios cannot work in the 'dead spot' any better than the SPD radios. They are on a common trunked system and therefore have identical frequency assignments regardless of talk group assignment.

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mmresn said on February 20, 2010 at 11:09 AM

What is interesting and not mentioned here is that both SPD and KCSO utilize the same 800mhz radio system. If the radio system works in the tunnel for KCSO then why doesn't it work work for SPD? Do they simply need to change talkgroups on thier radios in order for a dispatcher to hear them?

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contraryjim said on February 19, 2010 at 6:36 PM

WIRE IT!! Another example of public transit incompetence. And we'll have another tunnel? Could be the cops usually work in a "dead zone".

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butch70 said on February 19, 2010 at 2:52 PM

Well! Welcome to the world of radio communications. Two-way radios do not work the same.

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david5198 said on February 19, 2010 at 12:55 PM

Chevelle70ss, sorry to say that you appear to be as antiquated as the care bearing you screen-name. You say that copperhead is a dork, not so, look in the mirror because that is the most likely place you see a dork. Copperhead is correct and has done the research. I know this because I have a scanner and to program King County agencies into it took me several days because of all the frequencies in the trunked system followed by all the talk-group codes that have to programmed in. Go to the site mentioned by copperhead and you will better understand the pros and cons of a trunked system.

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copperheadcsa said on February 19, 2010 at 10:41 AM

Uh, chevelle70ss your idiocy is showing. That would be you' re a dork, you DORK!

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millkirk said on February 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM

Many dollars spent, few brains used.

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etymologist72 said on February 19, 2010 at 10:00 AM

Sound Transit and Metro are responsible for creating the huge catastrophe of the bus tunnel. What could have been something great is painfully flawed. First, they didn’t build it correctly and had to close the tunnel for over two years to correctly lay the track for the light rail. Then they allowed the bus runs back in that tended to stop in more low income areas than commuter buses. This is fine, and this is where our buses should stop, but they should have recognized that by letting in only these routes there were likely going to be problems in the tunnel that were previously limited. Not only did they cause the tunnel to be an area lacking in safety, they added security that can’t do anything to help. Further, they armed these guards with only radios that don’t work everywhere in the tunnel and it was only when the police complained about the lack of radio communication that anyone even thought to rectify the situation.

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shanem said on February 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM

Copperhead may be a dork, but he is a CORRECT dork!

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skok_cush said on February 19, 2010 at 9:29 AM

Bald Eagle Said it PERFECTLY. and they wonder why no one wants to voluntarily ride mass transit or go downtown period. Should rename it the Seattle Zoo Tunnel

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chevelle70ss said on February 19, 2010 at 8:52 AM

copperhead your a dork

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baldeagle said on February 19, 2010 at 8:24 AM

If your radio doesn't work, use your gun!

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copperheadcsa said on February 19, 2010 at 8:01 AM

To clarify a bit, becasue SPD and KCSO are both on the same regional system the Sherrif's radios won't work in the tunnel's dead spot any better than SPD's. http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Trunking_Basics

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copperheadcsa said on February 19, 2010 at 7:48 AM

yoshimi104- If SPD and KCSO were on an old frequency based radio system that may be possible but nearly all Puget Sound Area police, fire and EMS are on a newer regional 'trunked' radio system. Trunked systems work much like a land-line telephone switch. Who you can communicate with is controlled by what is known as a 'talk group' identifier not a radio frequency. The issue in the tunnel is that the 800Mhz radios are low wattage output and cannot overcome the tunnel's depth. Installing a trunked repeater in the tunnel would be expensive. One possible solution would be non-trunked portable radios with a repeater in the tunnel tied into the trunked system via telephone line or microwave link.

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tripod said on February 19, 2010 at 6:08 AM

Well... Lets tell everybody about it in a public forum. It is obvious that SPD knows it has a problem. All agencies are very concerned with officer safety, I am sure that they are trying to correct this. My point is that even simpleton criminals watch TV and read...

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joeschmo2u said on February 19, 2010 at 4:27 AM

Why can't they add cell service to the tunnel? That way I can call 911 if/when I see a cop getting beat up. They just added cell service last year for the Washington DC metro tunnels. We need more communications in the tunnel, the current system is s big failure.

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yoshimi104 said on February 19, 2010 at 2:16 AM

Setting up a completely new repeater system is actually not the "simple answer", Skippy. It is very cost prohibitive, not to mention you would need likely need multiple repeaters or some sort of a microwave or other data link system to connect all of the repeaters to each other, and then to the city. A simpler solution, and one I don't know why it couldn't work is this. Have SPD utilize the Sheriffs Office equipment. Reprogram their radios with the channel (frequencies) of the Repeaters that the Sheriffs office use and that way they can hear each other (interoperability), and are still able to talk to the outside world.

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skippythedog said on February 19, 2010 at 2:03 AM

simple...set up a repeater down there....and while you're at it, set up cell repeaters down there too in order to serve as backup and to further enhance the safety of the general public. You might improve your ridership as it's mostly "intimidating" looking people riding the buses now.

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repetivity said on February 18, 2010 at 11:58 PM

"In an emergency, the officer could be all alone". And your point is... Didn't we just crucify private security guards who make 25% of a police officer's salary, are not armed, are not trained in close quarters combat, and are subject to termination for physical contact, for not responding to a street brawl? Why are we more worried about an infinitely more prepared police officer than a private security guard? A bit elitist perhaps?

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