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ACLU, Native Americans concerned about SPD's use of deadly force

by LINDA BRILL & CHRIS DANIELS / KING 5 News

KING5.com

Posted on September 8, 2010 at 5:55 PM

Updated Wednesday, Sep 8 at 10:22 PM

SEATTLE - The ACLU says the Seattle Police Department needs leadership, de-escalation training and cross-cultural skills that will help minimize the chances of fatal street encounters.

"There's been too much violence by the Seattle police against its citizens," said Kathleen Taylor, ACLU director.

The group is the latest to criticize the Seattle Police Department after the shooting death of a Native American wood carver.

Outside of the Seattle Police Department headquarters Wednesday, a silent vigil was held for the victim, John Williams.

Mourners say Williams was a mild-mannered man. The group of demonstrators says five eye-witnesses say Williams did not threaten the officer who shot and killed Williams a week ago Monday.

"There is no reason this huge officer, a tall man, could not have used his baton to knock the knife from John's hand. Where was his taser? How is a short knife going to go through a bullet-proof vest?" asked Williams' friend, Mary Alice Knotts.

Seattle Police Deputy Chief Clark Kimerer says the police review board will hold its first hearing on the case on October 4.

"With the panel convened we are going to ask hard questions and get to the truth of what occurred," said Kimerer.

Native American Community Responds

More than a hundred people gathered at the Daybreak Star Indian Cultural Center to ask questions about the shooting Wednesday night, including why deadly force was used.

Seattle Police Chief John Diaz provided no new answers on the incident, but did say many officers do not have tasers.  Diaz says he plans to issue more of the devices to officers.

Shanawa Littlebow, of Seattle, says Williams was a friend, and an accomplished Native American carver.  He says he wasn't reassured by what he heard Wednesday night.

"I have no faith in their process no faith in the system that basically sides with the Police Department," she said.

Assistant Chief Nick Metz did apologize to the crowd for how he described Williams prior history at the scene, and in other interviews with the media. Metz said he regretted talking about it.

"It's not something I should have said," he said.

McGinn responds

Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn was not at the meeting, but did issue a statement saying he meets with the Chief and senior SPD leaders once a week and "one of the things they have been discussing is de-escalation training, which they were discussing before the death of John Williams."

McGinn says there will be a thorough investigation into what happened and he is "committed to meeting with Native Americans and other communities to discuss their concerns."

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 80

aztrixie said on September 16, 2010 at 7:55 AM

It's called murder.

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washingtonian said on September 12, 2010 at 11:40 AM

@unhappy, you are a child so shut up, it has already been verified he was SHOT IN THE BACK you pathetic idiot, and he wasn't charging the Cop. Got something to say idiot?

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tomma206 said on September 11, 2010 at 10:55 PM

So funny how most people posting want you to do it their way or die.They are worse than the cops.No pun intended.You know who you are.

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rustyrebel said on September 11, 2010 at 10:42 PM

@Bobknows......That is what I was going to post, before I saw Unhappy's lame comment., that the ACLU only comes out against civil abuse when it involves a "minority". There were 7 people shot and killed by police within that 7 day period.....including a white, 74 yr. old preacher/business owner on his own property. But the ACLU is only interested in this 1 death. I guess they should change their acronym to SACLU...Special Americans Civil Liberties..... I'm about done with them anyway.

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rustyrebel said on September 11, 2010 at 10:37 PM

@Unhappy....you are and I kow why. "He charged a cop" ??? What an idiot. He ABSOLUTELY did not charge the cop. He was deaf in one ear. He had his back turned to the officer. He turned to hear. He got shot. That is hardly "charging a cop". Now you've made more people "Unhappy". What a dolt!

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theperfectweapon said on September 11, 2010 at 7:58 PM

I agree with unhappy. Shut your mouth, Washingtonian idiot!

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unhappy said on September 11, 2010 at 2:41 PM

washingtonian really, whittling..i suppose he was just walking down the street whittling a totem pole and the cops came out of nowhere and just shot him...who's the idiot... he charged a cop with a knife in hand....if you really have shot anybody, protected anything or served your country or community...you would understand.........

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washingtonian said on September 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM

I don't care if the guy was black, white, indian, or chinese. When idiots like the simple minded fools who've never shot anybody, protected anything nor served their country or community in their lives start talking about simply not listening to a Cop is justifiable homicide, it's time to re-evaluate your own pathetic lives. The guy was whittling for Gods sake!

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bobknows said on September 11, 2010 at 9:49 AM

Yep. The ACLU is all about racism and sexism. They have no concern when extreme blue gun thug violence is used on white men. ACLU only complains when some identified racist group is the victim of gun thug violence. What we need is more racism and less general demand to stop pig violence against ALL the people. Yep. ACLU racism is helping.

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unhappy said on September 11, 2010 at 6:45 AM

you people watch to many movies.... these people are not paided to die or risk their lifes for you... if you have a knife and dont drop it when told and then you charge at a cop, you will be shot.....ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB....drop the knife,,,great job NAACP and ACLU.... make this persons actions someone elses fault... awesome job..

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rigidprinciples said on September 10, 2010 at 11:56 AM

Don't hate the police. The legislators of the unconstitutional legislation are the root cause. This is why voting will never get us back our freedoms. Voting the bad guy out means voting a bad guy in. There are no good guys, as they no longer know what good is. In our country, good equates to Constitutional. You will never have a problem finding folks to execute that unconstitutional legislation. Our judicial systems rely upon previous unconstitutional legislation to justify upholding current unconstitutional legislation.Our second amendment is to combat this very problem.You can't instill enough fear into the executors to get them to stop. Folks should ponder how to truly instill fear into the other two branches, to see if that could get them to stop passing and upholding unconstitutional legislation. Again, voting out a bad guy for another bad guy obviously doesn't achieve this. How free would We be if those two branches actually feared passing/upholding unconstitutional legislation?

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jeff_knight said on September 10, 2010 at 9:36 AM

gwmoy said, "The Seattle Police Dept. has a long history of using abusive practices against Native Americans and Native Alaskans." If that is so (supposedly), I wonder why. Isn't it because they are always drunk on the streets of Seattle?

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jann_lee said on September 10, 2010 at 8:47 AM

I'm not saying every cop is perfect or clean! If you think you're being harassed or arrested falsely, then FIGHT THEM IN COURT! Once again, why? BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, YOU MORON! THAT'S COMMON SENSE!

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jann_lee said on September 10, 2010 at 8:34 AM

Check out the story where a former pastor got shot and killed by a police officer in Spokane Valley. The victim was just protecting his property at night, and the cop freaked out because of the gun in his hand. Unfortunately, that was a big accident. With that being said, you gotta be smarter than police officers. You want to pay attention to them, you better have solid common sense, and above all, you better NOT provoke them. Everytime I interact with police officers, I call them "Sir or Ma'am (LMAO!)," I fully cooperate with them, and I do my best to relax them. Believe me, I'm such a tough guy I can not only beat da sh*t out of those fat bast*rds but also kill them instantly if I want to, but that's not the point. The point is I fully cooperate with police officers because YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, YOU MORONS! THAT'S COMMON SENSE!

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cjcampbell said on September 10, 2010 at 7:56 AM

Well, Jeff Knight, it appears that is exactly what the officer did: fired four shots into the back of someone who was walking away. Incredible, but true.

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jeff_knight said on September 10, 2010 at 7:50 AM

If the cop fired four shots, that could mean only one thing. The subject was indeed approaching the cop, with the knife! I don't think the cop fired four shots in the back of someone walking away.

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scott_bellevue said on September 10, 2010 at 7:43 AM

The cop fired four shots in response to a 3" knife. Four times. Regardless of this man's past, regardless of what he was doing, four shots do not seem justified.

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cjcampbell said on September 10, 2010 at 7:24 AM

Guess I'll have to tell my white-haired old mother to stay out of Seattle. At 80, she doesn't always hear so well. And she carries those big knitting needles everywhere. They are a lot longer than three inches. Some ploiceman might feel threatened because she is knitting an Afghan, clearly a terrorist act.

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cjcampbell said on September 10, 2010 at 7:17 AM

Intell, it is hard to read lips with the back of your head. Or are your eyes located on your backside?

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cjcampbell said on September 10, 2010 at 7:14 AM

Williams was not threatening anybody with a knife. He was whittling -- something he had done every day for many years. Sorry, but committing art is not a crime. He was partially deaf. He may even have believed the officer was talking to somebody else. He did not think he had a weapon. The officer had no justification for even accosting this man, let alone for shooting him. The police can't go driving up and down the street shooting at people just because they are drunk, whittling, or look scary. The only person who was threatening people with a deadly weapon was the officer. The only menace to public safety was the officer. The only person who committed a crime was the officer. He should be stripped of his badge and gun and prosecuted like any other criminal who just walks up to a complete stranger and guns him down without provocation.

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gwmoy said on September 10, 2010 at 2:03 AM

The Seattle Police Dept. has a long history of using abusive practices against Native Americans and Native Alaskans. It has gone way to long. I have no faith in the "Seattle Police Dept.". I do not feel safe at all whenever I am in the Seattle area. And I love Seattle. Go figure. I pray thay that the officer who shot John Williams is brought to justice. I will be praying for his family and friends.

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theperfectweapon said on September 9, 2010 at 8:11 PM

253---native, you're really making fun of your own entire race with your stupidity. Let's suppose you're correct with your statement "When I visit the court system in Tacoma, there seems to be a lot of people of color. Why is that? Why do white officers pick on people of color? why? why? why? why don't i see white people in the court having to defend themselves?" Okay, do you really think it's because White police officers arrest colored criminals only while they let white criminals go? Don't you think it's because a lot of people of color you're talking about committed crimes? What do you think?

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theperfectweapon said on September 9, 2010 at 7:50 PM

There're a lot of morons posting here. LOOK! IF YOU'RE A LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN, YOU SHOULDN'T FEAR POLICE OFFICERS OR THEIR GUNS! AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A SOLID COMMON SENSE TOO! If you want to carve, then, do it in your workshop! If a police officer yells "Drop your knife!" then drop your knife!

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luna1sierra said on September 9, 2010 at 7:39 PM

Its nice that they are finally meeting and talking..I cannot help but wonder why it took so bloody long. We all deserve to be safe , not just the rich...there are far more "regular" people here than millionaires...

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shoot_fighter said on September 9, 2010 at 6:43 PM

Oops..."a sailboat"

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shoot_fighter said on September 9, 2010 at 6:41 PM

@bill_wallace: I don't think 253native will understand your sarcasm. You see? His brain is like a sail boat sailing across the ocean. Without the sail.

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bill_wallace said on September 9, 2010 at 6:34 PM

Now, I can hear white people trying to argue with me. What does the crime rate have to do with education level and income level??? Shut up, you lazy, uneducated bummms! It has to do with EVERYTHING!

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bill_wallace said on September 9, 2010 at 6:23 PM

253 native said : "When I visit the court system in Tacoma, there seems to be a lot of people of color. Why is that? Why do white officers pick on people of color? why? why? why? why don't i see white people in the court having to defend themselves?" (Shhh...LMAO!) (Cough, cough, cough!) I know what you mean, buddie. The majority students of every university are Native Americans and African Americans. The majority of Native Americans and African Americans are alcohol-free, drug-free, crime-free, and highly educated! And, at the same time, the majority of high income earners are Native Americans and African Americans. I don't know why white cops keep arresting them. It's a big mystery. (LMAO!)

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bill_wallace said on September 9, 2010 at 6:05 PM

253 native said : "When I visit the court system in Tacoma, there seems to be a lot of people of color. Why is that? Why do white officers pick on people of color? why? why? why? why don't i see white people in the court having to defend themselves?" (Hehehehehehehehehehehe. Hahahahhahahahaha.) Well, buddie, in case you didn't know, it's a big conspiracy.

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253native said on September 9, 2010 at 5:36 PM

I'm a little glad the SPD is trying to meet with the Native community. Because it is a right to speak out, but few ever listen! The Native's have a right to speak out. And white people need to listen! Something is very wrong here when he was murdered. I want to know where the cultural sensitivities are among all law enforcement officers? When I visit the court system in Tacoma, there seems to be a lot of people of color. Why is that? Why do white officers pick on people of color? why? why? why? why don't i see white people in the court having to defend themselves? There are a lot of racist law enforcement officers out there. There are too many people of color trying to defend themselves. My message to all law enforcement officers is to quit causing hurt and pain to all people of color! Because the man was murdered and it needs to stop! White people only see the negative in all things and that is not us! We are people of color! Justice served

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mikeb206 said on September 9, 2010 at 5:09 PM

Williams was NOT a mild-mannered man. He had a criminal history dating back to the 80's Crimes including assault, possession of a deadly weapon, theft, rape, felony harassment. Funny how this doesn't get mentioned.

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vandamme said on September 9, 2010 at 4:50 PM

I usually take care of any guy with a knife in humane way. A baseball bat to the front shin.

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theperfectweapon said on September 9, 2010 at 4:13 PM

Or a semi-automatic "fast-acting tranquilizer" handgun. LMAO!

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theperfectweapon said on September 9, 2010 at 4:11 PM

I wish there were a Taser which a cop can fire a dozen of fast shots like a semi-automatic handgun.

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wise_up_america said on September 9, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Just a little off topic but.. I am 54 and have had the pleasure of meeting, knowing and the displeasure of being pulled over by the Washington State Patrol in my life and I have this to say. Every single one of them has always treated me with the utmost courtesy and respect. You don't hear of any State police shootings like this. Hats off to the the Washington State Patrol. Professional all the way! I have known sheriffs that are good guys and then some are a-holes. I know a Seattle detective and he is the best guy you could meet. For the most part cops are good people but some have a bad attitude from the start. Tacoma's police chief killed his wife and himself. The crazy people believe it or not can become cops and do. I just don't see that this man had to die and if the officer would have kept driving this man would still be alive. Don't always assume the cop is on the up and up. They kill people just like the bad guy because they are a bad guy with a badge.

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wise_up_america said on September 9, 2010 at 2:47 PM

I think there are two schools of thought here and accross the country. I am a ferm believer in the constitution as it is written. One thought is that we should have no weapons. Do you think the bad guys give a $$$$ about the law? They will have weapons and you will have none to protect yourself and your family. This is a clear violation of the constitution. So Seattle has a law against longer knives. Why? The bad guy can kill you with a plastic spoon or mess up your life with a bank card. A razor blade. I think this law is a violation of the constitution and its stupid. The other school of thought is we all should have a gun and know how to use it. For two reasons. 1 The enemy from over the water will have trouble taking this country. 2 The bad guys in this country will think twice knowing that you most likely have a gun on you. That you will protect your family at all costs. It is sad that people have killed police and if we could stop them we would. We can stop the police.

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tacwilster said on September 9, 2010 at 12:35 PM

Would the ACLU come forward for a "white" person?? It is tragic but it can't be changed and I don't think the police were wrong. I am more inclined to think Williams was commiting suicide by the hands of someone else because he couldn't do it himself.

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mi584 said on September 9, 2010 at 11:59 AM

I'm Native American and have no problem with what happened.

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chuckstr76 said on September 9, 2010 at 11:35 AM

Bottom line, This "Indian" screwed up, now we have all the Indian minorities and the ACLU jumping on the band wagon claiming this and that, who cares, the dude screwed up.... and unfortunately go shot...next story please.

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brucelee said on September 9, 2010 at 10:54 AM

@washingtonian: Let off some steam and take a deep breath. Nobody is calling the cop a hero. I'm sure many people feel that his action was a little bit too fast. Whether he shot the Indian in the back and whether the Indian really approached the officer with a knife, we will officially hear about it sooner or later. At the same time, many people are wondering why the Indian didn't put down the knife in the first place.

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washingtonian said on September 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM

This Pig was nothing more than a cowardly punk who acosted and the shot a man 4 times in the back. If you consider him a hero you're an absolute idiot. He's a cowardly Pig and should probably be looking over his shoulder.

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jakedog said on September 9, 2010 at 9:45 AM

Hmm, last time I checked a knife was a deadly weapon. The ACLU needs to educate themselves! BULLET PROOF VESTS DO NOT STOP KNIVES, THEY GO STRAIGHT THROUGH! The kevlar strands in the vest stop a bullet from spinning thus preventing entry. The full force is still felt and the wearer can die from internal injuries (massive bruising). The vests can only stop small caliber hand guns, not knives or rifles.

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brucelee said on September 9, 2010 at 9:13 AM

I'm sure the officer felt his life was in danger. Whether you agree or not, it doesn't matter. I've beat da sh*t out of many stupid guys in self-defense for the last decade. Did I dodge their flying fists and counter like the heroes in the action movies?? Nope! I was backing up, and they were charging at me with their fists raised. That was enough for me.

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franky said on September 9, 2010 at 8:53 AM

This has become boring, I can't wait till something else happens to get this out of the news. So many people have forgotten that we lost 5 or so officers to criminals last year, why is there no protesting against that?

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vandamme said on September 9, 2010 at 8:41 AM

Now, this is my message to everybody not just Indians. I want you guys to know, if you get drunk, you're taking a lot of risks that can kill you and other people. I just want you guys to know that.

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vandamme said on September 9, 2010 at 8:37 AM

Are you concerned about SPD's use of deadly force ??? I want all the Indians know WE ARE VERY RELIEVED ABOUT SPD'S USE OF DEADLY FORCE. Why? Because we have common sense and good knowledge of the LAW.

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wise_up_america said on September 9, 2010 at 8:35 AM

ok all you guys that use chain saws to carve your beautiful art in public you need to find a reservation to fit in so you don't get shot! theperfectweapon it is not ok to display a knife in public! This however inplies that you showed the knife in some sort of way that threatened some other person. Sitting on the side of the street carving on wood however is not against the law and yes here in the USA you are free to do what makes you happy so long as you harm no other and violate no law. Williams from what i have read was only carving on wood not people and was hurting no one. The police took it upon himself to stop and go out of his way to ask the guy what he was doing? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You may want the police to be able to stop you, question you, come into your home, deprive you of your life and liberty without due process but the constitution forbids it! Now if the officer wants to say hi as you pass fine. They have no authorty until you break the law.

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vandamme said on September 9, 2010 at 8:29 AM

@theperfectweapon: Yeah, by the same token, you better know Indian's rules and regulations before you enter the reservation. LMAO!!!

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theperfectweapon said on September 9, 2010 at 8:06 AM

And maybe it's okay to display a knife in public and carve in the reservation (I have no idea, I've never been to reservation. That's why I said maybe) But it's never okay to do so in our society. Let this be a good lesson.

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theperfectweapon said on September 9, 2010 at 8:00 AM

I'll teach something valuable to these Native Americans, and it will save their lives some day. ---> "Know your enemies, and then know yourselves. Then, you'll always be victorious." ---> Know the rules and regulations outside your reservation. Respect and pay attention to our police officers. Know your weaknesses also. If you're alcoholic, know that too! Maybe, if you're smart, you can come up with an idea such as buying beer here but get drunk in your reservation. Then, you'll have nothing to fear about.

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someotherguy said on September 9, 2010 at 7:06 AM

Its really hard to follow the commands of a cop when you are "Indian" drunk. I'm glad the ACLU will keep us safe from the knife wielding drunks of the world.

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intell said on September 9, 2010 at 7:04 AM

Even if the guy could not hear he can read lips or at least see the look on the cops faces are serious all he had to do was lay it down.

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wise_up_america said on September 9, 2010 at 7:02 AM

seattlebusinessm:" How about the stupid looking people in this picture, nothing but high class tax paying citizens here. NOT" You are a racist and a very shallow person who judges people from the outside rather than what comes from the inside. You don't know any of them you just think you are better. This looks like a picture of native americans to me? I think seattlebusinessm you are like hitler you want to do away with all the people who don't look like you. Who don't fit up to your mold of a model citizen. Its shallow people like you that make this country a messed up place to live. The constitution was written for all not just shallow people like yourself. Thank god none of the great men who wrote the constitution had a pea brain like you. Just my opinion.

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wise_up_america said on September 9, 2010 at 6:53 AM

The police will get our support when they stop being the gastopo. Williams was sitting doing what he does threatening no one and was confronted by police. We will support our police when they read the constitution and uphold the verbiage there within. We will support the legal system when they uphold the constitution they have sworn to uphold. If you want to live in russia go for it but this is the United States and we are protected by the constitution from harassment and have rights. Any person who wants to take away the rights guaranteed under the constitution has no right in any public office. What if the cop had just went on his way? Would this man be alive?? Williams was on the side of the street not harming anyone he was not kicking the backdoor at 7eleven at 3am. Williams had assulted no one with his knife therefore he was within his rights to whittle because it made him happy and it made him money. Brokein no law for police to enforce.

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brentallica said on September 9, 2010 at 6:51 AM

I think everyone who is holding a weapon and not listening to the police officers commands should be concerned about the SPDs use of deadly force. Not just the ACLU and Native Americans. It's not a race issue, it's a safety issue. Common sense tells me, and I'm no genius, that if I hold a weapon and ignore cops, I may be putting myself in a difficult situation where I may be hurt. Because of that, I don't. I don't see any problem at all with this.....

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shoreline said on September 9, 2010 at 6:26 AM

Hey kayleesmommy, relax a little. By and large, the vast majority of people are totally in support of our officers. There are a few loons that regularly rant on these blogs behin the safety of their anonomous screen names. It used to bother me as well until I realized that this is their way of venting their paranoid delusions in a safe way. If you look through these stories, you'll see it is always the same 3 or 4 nut cases that will find fault with the police no matter how they handle any situation. As for the media, they'll encourage these poor under-medicated folks with these stories because it increases ratings and stirring up controversy where there shouldn't be any gives reporters a job and paycheck. Isn't it odd how the only people who are dying at the hands of the police are the people stealing cars, pointing guns at officers, assaulting officers, or not complying with an officer's instructions? So far, no "innocent" people are being killed. Weird...

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kayleesmommy said on September 9, 2010 at 6:02 AM

Yes, the officer who shot this man should have aimed for the calf, or the arm. RIGHT. Officers are not trained to wound. When pulling a gun out on someone it's pretty common knowledge you don't shoot unless you are going to kill. Let's not forget the fact that in the Seattle area last Oct-December we lost SIX police officers between Lakewood, Seattle and Pierce county to people who were violating the law. When does it become the responsibility of, oh I don't know maybe the person wielding the KNIFE in this situation? Even if a taser had been used SOMEONE would have been in an uproar. Recently, a young man that in Gold Bar was tased by a County officer, the man had a heart attack and died. Forget the fact he was breaking the law, forget the fact that reports have him high. People in that area (Especially the family) is ticked that this kid was tased. When do police officers start getting the support they deserve, instead of just a continuous bad rap?

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whatsyurbeef said on September 9, 2010 at 5:49 AM

seattlebusinessm, you talk as though arrogance is a virtue but you may have one redeeming quality... you make me laugh..

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chuckstr76 said on September 9, 2010 at 5:18 AM

Drunk person, knife in hand, cop tells you to put it down, and you dont....guess whats going to happen next...hello

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retrievers said on September 9, 2010 at 4:42 AM

I do not know the details since the investigation is still underway and the findings have not been made public. What I do know that a man killed two police officers in Hoonah Alaska and their funeral was yesterday. Not once has an issue been made that the suspect who ambushed these officers was Native American and the officers were not. Let's take race out of the equation and focus on why we have officers shooting people and people shooting officers. Should the investigation return that this was a racial issue, then address it. Stop assuming that every is related to race.

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duanesworld said on September 8, 2010 at 11:57 PM

Well, think about it. Generalissimo Diaz and Mayor Begin promised changes in the Department! Shoot first, fill out the paper work later. Say, How come Mayor Begun wasn't at the meeting? I thought he ran on a plank of being involved with the community. Guess this potato is too hot for him!

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seattlebusinessm said on September 8, 2010 at 11:26 PM

smells like bacon? stupid comment. How about the stupid looking people in this picture, nothing but high class tax paying citizens here. NOT

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blackhand said on September 8, 2010 at 11:16 PM

smells like bacon

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seattlebusinessm said on September 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM

yeah biohazard1 why dont you go move somewhere else. Seattle doesnt need anymore bleeding heart idiots like you....

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factual said on September 8, 2010 at 9:59 PM

biohazard1 before you start complaining about the police and what they could do you need to go read the use of force continuum. I will say again use of a firearm is use of deadly force. when deadly force is used it's usually the last resort. Before you tell the police to retun to the acdemy you need to go online and read your material before you post. What you say make you sound ignorant and your argument ridiculous.

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rigidprinciples said on September 8, 2010 at 9:43 PM

The police do an excellent job executing the laws of the police state. If you don't like the way the police are in a police state, don't blame the police, but instead blame the legislators who created the police state. You'll never, ever have a problem finding more police officers to execute unconstitutional legislation. That line goes on for infinity.

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biohazard1 said on September 8, 2010 at 9:34 PM

Our cops are just to twitchy here ...they would just as soon shoot you as figure out whats going on... there was NO reason for the police officer to shoot John Williams.. a shot to the calf or the arm would have winged him.. think a trip back to the Police Academy would be good for all of them...its so bad i dont even want to go anywhere.. cause i could be next just crossing the street.. we .. the people of seattle.. shouldnt be living in fear of those who are SUPPOSED to be protecting us !

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taxdollarsponge said on September 8, 2010 at 9:27 PM

@mi584,thats called suicide by cop.

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trucker45 said on September 8, 2010 at 9:26 PM

The ACLU already know how to be police. Lets give them nice shiny police cars, great looking uniforms and those lethal annoying guns can be locked up since they cause the deaths of so many innocent people. You can preach to those innocent armed with nothing but a knife wonderful guys. Can not wait to see how they will do in Belltown and the Central District. Nothing but innocents there, never broke the law before they are just misunderstood.

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wearedoomed said on September 8, 2010 at 9:19 PM

The police have always served and protected me as a citizen. Keep up the good work!

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centsofreason2 said on September 8, 2010 at 8:59 PM

HOW ABSURD! hahaha From my own personal experience and training, I have seen knives (and arrows) for that matter pierce through body armor with little if any resistance. Additionally, it does not protect against ALL handgun rounds, and does not protect against ANY rifle rounds. Hence, it is not a 'bulletproof' vest, but a 'bullet resistant' vest. It is exactly the same concept as 'water resistant' shoes..... your feet still get wet, but it might take a little longer. The same is true for weapons used against it. ALSO, the bullet resistant vest only covers a VERY small area when compared to the rest of the body (i.e. the head/brain, cervical spine, femoral artery, and other areas. Check out the South Carolina Trooper Coates video. The suspect was shot 5 times in the chest with a large caliber handgun, AFTER WHICH, the suspect shot Coates ONCE in his armpit while he radioed for help.... killing him! The suspect subsequently survived and was a fugitive for 3 days.

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dakotanative said on September 8, 2010 at 8:50 PM

MADD, NAACP, ACLU, unions, they have all outlived their use and have turned into terrorist organizations that cause more pain than they cure.

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mi584 said on September 8, 2010 at 8:44 PM

If the criminals stop attacking the cops, they will stop getting hurt. It's as simple as that. Do what you're told and don't be a dumb@$$. If you feel your rights were violated by an unlawful order or detention then sue. Because if your rights were violated the Ninth Circuit (Circus) Court will award you lots of money. People need to start wising up and stop living with a sense of entitlement. If you don't like the rules society has put forth for you to follow, then either leave or remove yourself from it.

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seattlebusinessm said on September 8, 2010 at 8:42 PM

My two cents, the ACLU needs to just go away. You train the police to protect and serve, and if people didn't show a knife, or do something to deserve it they would not get shot. All the cops I know would rather never pull their service weapon, but they sure as heck need to know how to use it if they do. I think the Seattle PD does have areas where it could use some help, but the ACLU telling them what to do, please, go fight some other stupid case that most of the country could care less about. They have no creditability in my book.

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yogibear said on September 8, 2010 at 8:31 PM

The ACLU need to tell the bad guys (and girls) to change their ways

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newsmanr6 said on September 8, 2010 at 7:11 PM

When will the ACLU learn they no longer have any credibility and that no one really care what their position is? Plus get you facts straight before you go running your mouth. Knife - vest argument just emphasizes complete ignorance Mary.......

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captjp said on September 8, 2010 at 7:02 PM

Granola- Very well said. The (aclu and naacp) are just as much of the problem as the criminal. What I would say to them, if you really what to fix the problems then you need to start within.

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chinesemecs03999 said on September 8, 2010 at 6:49 PM

Apparently the Mary Knotts have no understanding of ballistic vest and there capability. A ballistic vest unless specifically made. A regular one offer you no protection against edge weapon maybe against slashing towards your body but stabbing will go through the vest. 2nd question why would you shoot someone with a knife well a knife is a deadly weapon and can cause great bodily harm or death and can be dealt with deadly force thats if your being attacked. Now if the person not attacking then other options can be considered.

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granola said on September 8, 2010 at 6:19 PM

Maybe we should be worried about why our laws are so liberal, and people are on the streets- rather than why a police officer uses force to protect themselves or others. Police officers should not have to second guess if they will be srutinized for doing their jobs. They need to be safe.

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kbbcoop said on September 8, 2010 at 6:19 PM

Ever since Obama got elected the police have been on a shooting spree.

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