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Gay marriage supporters say they have enough votes in legislature

by KING 5 News and Associated Press

KING5.com

Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Updated Monday, Jan 23 at 11:49 PM

OLYMPIA - Washington's Legislature now has enough votes to legalize gay marriage.
  
Democratic Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen says she will support the measure, becoming the 25th vote needed to pass the bill out of the Senate. The House already has enough support, and Gov. Chris Gregoire has endorsed the plan.

“I’ve had hundreds of very heartfelt, sincere letters,” Haugen told KING 5 News. “I’ve had letters that are threatening and other letters that aren’t so pleasant, but I’m Christian, and I don’t believe it’s my right to judge other people, and I really try to live by the Golden Rule, and I believe I’m following my faith at this point. I really think it’s the right thing to do."

Supporters and opponents of the bill packed a Senate hearing Monday morning.

“I have waited 17 years to ask this body to consider marriage equality for gay and lesbian families,” said bill sponsor, Sen. Ed Murray.

“This bill is about people who love and cherish each other and wish to honor that commitment,” said Murray. “It also creates an absolute exemption for religious organizations and clergy that do not wish to marry same sex couples.”

Sixteen-year-old Brennen Smith told the story of his gay parents, and the household he grew up in – which included 30 foster children.

"Child rape victims, drug affected families, incarcerated parents, parents with extreme mental health issues and victims of childhood neglect.  I wonder why these parents, even though they are incapable of providing a safe and stable household, can marry an infinite amount of times while mine cannot marry once," he said.

“My house is proof that the stability and quality of a couple's parenting has nothing to do with the combination of their genders,” he said.

Opponents were just as vocal, speaking out against same sex marriage.

“If you pass this bill you are just as narrow minded, you're just as bigoted and you're just as unloving to everything and anyone who wants to get married outside of one man, woman and two men and two women,” said Pastor Ken Hutcherson, Antioch Bible Church.

“The state has long recognized the societal benefits of promoting strong families because they establish a framework for healthy permanent male, female relationships,” said Archbishop J. Peter Sartain.

Some threatened to fight the bill with a referendum, if it's passed.

“I am confident that this state, like every other state, that has had the option will weigh the evidence and ultimately conclude that moms and dads do matter,” said Joseph Backholm, Family Policy Institute.

At the House hearing on HB 2516 Monday afternoon,  Gov. Chris Gregoire's legislative director, Jim Justin, said Gregoire believes it's time to give same sex couples the right to receive a marriage license, the same right given heterosexual couples.

Justin said the governor believes there's simply no legitimate state interest in denying same sex couples a marriage license.

"It is the responsibility of the state to license, while it's the right of a church to decide whom to marry, and we belieive this billmakes it very clear the state will honor the religious freedom," he said.

While gay marriage bills have been introduced in Washington state before, this is the first time the issue received a public hearing.

Opponents say they will collect signatures to take the issue to voters via a referendum, which requires fewer signatures on a petition in order to make it to the ballot.

Washington state has had a domestic partnership law since 2007, and a so-called "everything but marriage" law since 2009.

Same-sex marriage is legal in New York, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and the District of Columbia. Lawmakers in New Jersey and Maryland are expected to debate gay marriage this year as well.

Up Front additional content

KING 5 interview with Sen. Haugen - key 25th vote on gay marriage

Video

Lawmakers consider gay marriage

Up Front Archive: 2006 Sims vs. Hutcherson on gay rights

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Comments: Displaying 1 - 15 of 212

underserf said on January 31, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Smokescreen politics, as Raygun & Nixon proposed and used to great success. Focus your attention on THIS folks, the minimum wage battle will be lost, unnoticed. Worked for Nixon & MFN, worked for Raygun, abortion (the smokescreen) and the massive wealth he saw to it was transferred to his masters in the military-industrial complex. Feh - who cares, the Republicants will overturn all legislation not benefitting the rich or the "Conservatives". One more time, CONServatives, where's your candidates' appeal for states' rights - when EVERY ONE supports Federal drug laws? Hypocrites.

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sir_kris said on January 27, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Marriage is sacred to you. That's awesome. But guess what? Allowing gay people the right to marry doesn't make your marriage any less sacred. In fact, the very notion of that is founded upon the bigoted notion that a gay relationship is inherently inferior to a straight one. If you don't like gay marriage, then don't marry a gay person. But you don't have the right to tell them they don't have the same rights that you do. It doesn't work that way. Marriage pre-dated Christianity by thousands of years and has evolved throughout history (including, at various points, the inclusion of same-sex marriages). If you believe that government should get out of issuing marriage licenses altogether, that's a valid discussion we can have later. But for now, the government is in the marriage business. There is no practical or rational reason why gay people can't get married. Therefore, government has no business telling them they can't. Period. It's gonna happen. Get used to it.

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ThinkN-Do said on January 25, 2012 at 8:58 PM

On The Money!: chwilsonjr "Come on WA... you want to be progressive, make a law that treats all equally, and not just change something for the few. Civil union could also be used for more than 2 people in the union... oh wait THAT would offend folks. Get my point? Gov says that 3 people in a union is offensive, but i am wrong by being offended gay marriage."

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chwilsonjr said on January 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Once again the lines get moved I voted for the 2007 and 2009 initiatives to hopefully not have what is going on now. Instead of modifying what marriage is, the state should just negate "marriage" from the books and make it all a civil union as far as laws go. Then to get a "marriage" certificate would come from the church and not the state. I hold marriage to be sacred. I should have just as much right to do so and those folks who want to change it. Unfortunately it looks like I do not. A civil union law would benefit all, not just the gay community. It would also benefit those who do not have religious beliefs, but still live together. Come on WA... you want to be progressive, make a law that treats all equally, and not just change something for the few. Civil union could also be used for more than 2 people in the union... oh wait THAT would offend folks. Get my point? Gov says that 3 people in a union is offensive, but i am wrong by being offended gay marriage.

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benjamin2010 said on January 24, 2012 at 10:50 PM

daisy5: I will agree that we disagree. That being said, I would still be interested to hear your explanation as to what private agencies could be shut down if gay marriage passes, as you have stated. How would your kids' private school be affected, as you have stated? How would your church be affected, as you have stated? On a side note, I do find it a tad ironic that Atheists like my wife and I can still enjoy the centuries-old institution of marriage as defined in the Bible, which I presume is what you are referencing, even though we reject God. But if two gay people who believe and accept God want to marry, they are denied. Yes, I call that intolerance. And I invite you to look up the word intolerant in Merriam-Webster. Again, I respect that your opinion and mine differ. I understand the point you are trying to make, but I strongly disagree.

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daisy5 said on January 24, 2012 at 9:46 PM

benjamin2010 You obviously are not listening to what my heart is saying. "One who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance." Really??? How many times do I have to say it... I have absolutely nothing against gay people... just about redefining a centuries old institution that believe it or not still means something sacred to me! I am not "intolerant" to anyone. It IS heartbreaking that anyone takes their own life... but it isn't just gay people that do it! There are all kinds of people who are bullied and have no hope. Still just amazed that your ideas and opinions are "free thinking" but mine are "intolerant." Neither one is right or wrong... they are just differing opinions! No point in answering anymore of your questions if you can't agree to that.

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daisy5 said on January 24, 2012 at 9:30 PM

@phaedrus I actually have a science degree,but thank you for the advice! Check your chromosomes... they are either XX or XY, not a mixture. I shudder to think how we will "evolve" as a society if we change our laws to reflect the desire of every minority group who demands "equal rights." @tootoo Probably so if they really believe in it.... there are definitely thousands who "choose" to be Christian killed around the world for their beliefs. @coffeeinseattle Yes it actually will, and my childrens and grandchildrens too. And they do have the same rights... just not the privilege of the "married" status. Enjoying the discussion though!!

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benjamin2010 said on January 24, 2012 at 9:21 PM

daisy5: My sincere apologies. I did not look closely at that post because I was looking for a direct response to me. Please elaborate -- What private agencies could be shut down if gay marriage passes? How would your kids' private school be affected? How would your church be affected? Remember that churches would not be required to perform gay marriages under this bill. It only gives gay couples the right to obtain a Washington marriage license legally. As for your assertion that being gay is like wearing an accessory, let me ask you this. If you can turn gay on and off like a lightswitch, why have so many bullied gay people chosen to take their own lives rather than just "be straight"? If it's a choice, it should be easy for them to just stop being gay so that nobody will bully them anymore, right? Finally, you have defended yourself against being called a bigot. Hate to break it to you, but you need to google Merriam-Webster's definition of bigot. Sorry.

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coffeeinseattle said on January 24, 2012 at 8:01 PM

@Daisy5: Does allowing people of the same gender to marry change your marriage? What are your criteria for getting married? If any or your criteria is "Want to spend the rest of your life with your partner", then that is exactly what gay people want to do. You are free to not recognize their marriage and likewise they may chose to not recognize yours. I am heterosexual and I would like gay people to have the same rights are me.

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tootoo said on January 24, 2012 at 7:49 PM

@Daisy5 What about homosexuals that are tortured and persecuted to death in other countries. Do you think they would "choose" to be gay under those threats?

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phaedrus said on January 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM

@Daisy5 You would do well to take a contemporary biology course. All mammals (that includes us humans) are to some degree both sexes. Most are predominately one or the other, but it is perfectly normal and common for an individual to be one sex on the outside (i.e. visual appearance) and the opposite sex internally, or any degree of variation. There is no valid scientific or medical argument against homosexuality, in fact, the only medical ruling against it came from the psychiatrists and they amended their books many years ago to acknowledge that it is perfectly natural and normal. The only argument against gay marriage that is based on religious ideology and therefore has no place in our laws. On top of that, the religious argument is based in a literal translation of the bible which is acknowledge today by most biblical scholars to be a false and incorrect interpretation. Civilization is evolving right past you, embrace the change or watch it go by. Definitions wil change.

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Daisy5 said on January 24, 2012 at 6:03 PM

Actually benjamin2010 ,I did answer that last night at 8:18. I also didn't say being gay was a choice,although if you spend much time on a HS or college campus you will find that often ones sexual preference,straight or gay or something in between, can be worn like an accessory and changed accordingly,so I am not convinced it is genetic. I am also not convinced that most people are naturally born monogamous either...but if you choose to marry you forfeit the right to have more than one spouse. The relationship you choose to be in IS your choice,and the benefits/consequences of that choice will follow.

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tootoo said on January 24, 2012 at 5:53 PM

@Daisy5 Back then in the US, marriage was definitely defined as a white man and a white woman or a non-white man and a non-white woman. So the definition can definitely change and will change. Whether now or in the future, people eventually begin to decide that it isn't good for society to deny people rights.

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Daisy5 said on January 24, 2012 at 5:21 PM

@tootoo With all due respect, no we can't. Again...this is not comparable to denying marriage based on color. The definition of marriage is the union between a man and a woman....not a white man and a white woman, or a black man and a black woman. They were not asking to change the definition, nor were they given the option of a civil union with the same rights and privileges of other married couples.

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benjamin2010 said on January 24, 2012 at 5:18 PM

daisy5: You presume that being gay is a choice, a theory that many other people reject. Is there proof it's a choice? No. Is there proof someone is born gay? No. So why even bring that into the argument when there is no way to prove it, one way or the other? By the way, you never answered my question from last night. You stated at 7:13 PM "Legalizing gay marriage would infringe on MY family's rights." How does letting a gay couple marry hurt your rights?

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au6892 said on January 24, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Whatever happened to separation of Church and State??? What your beliefs are thats your own choice. By no means should it carry over to laws. I don’t care what you call it…I want the same rights as everyone else; ESPECIALLY from the I.R.S.

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josefina said on January 24, 2012 at 4:38 PM

What a revolting development.

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F.obama said on January 24, 2012 at 4:21 PM

musicfreak - Thats not what I understand, however if I am wrong, then we should give them the same rights. Just don't call it marriage.

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clothyard said on January 24, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Something to think about. If this becomes law it will cost the taxpayers of this state more money. It will mean all the "partners" of state employees (and there is a significant representation of gay men and women among said employees) will be eligible for more benefits paid for by the taxpayer/ The left has already created another class of protected minorities, Of course, that is the real purpose of most social legislation by the left. Divide and conquer.

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tootoo said on January 24, 2012 at 3:30 PM

@Daisy5 But we can definitely compare it to miscegenation and the struggle to over turn laws for a white to marry a non-white. Anyone today who would be anti-miscegenation would be seen as a sad excuse for a human being. Just how in 10 years, the same will be for anti-gay marriage people.

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musicfreak said on January 24, 2012 at 3:26 PM

@F.obama, please look at the *differences* between a civil union and a marriage. They are NOT the same as far as "rights" go.

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F.obama said on January 24, 2012 at 3:10 PM

wawolf - D-A......A civil union already gives same sex couples the same rights in our society as married couples. The term "marriage" should apply to ONLY a man and a woman. If you want to come up with your own description like homoconnected, or homounion, or gayloveconnection, etc....knock yourself out! We should not be re-defining marriage. If you don't get -it, I am sorry. You never will. Marriage is a sacred thing to people like me, which is why you don't get it. Is nothing sacred any longer? Just leave marriage alone and start calling it something else if you want. That is fine with me.

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Daisy5 said on January 24, 2012 at 3:04 PM

I am curious to know where in the Constitution it says marriage is a "right" for anyone? Is it not a privilege rather than a right...and not all privileges apply to all people??

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coopdavillage said on January 24, 2012 at 2:29 PM

@ Soprema1: Our "society" does not go forward with a man and woman procreating. That only affects our population. Society only moves forward when people adapt and grow to become something better. I dont really see how that can happen however if everyone wants to keep living in an arcaic word....

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coopdavillage said on January 24, 2012 at 2:26 PM

Being LGBTQ is not a choice. If people dont want the right of marriage for everyone because of religion then remove it from government and make it a religious thing only. However it would have to be completely stripped of its legal rights and you would have to get a civil union. As for the past, people need to stop living in it. Things can NOT be the way they were in the past. In the past women were property, people were stoned to death or burned at the stake. The bible is a book that was written by man over 2000 years ago and yet people still follow it so blindly to this day and try to impose all of its rules on everyone else. Frankly people need to learn their history, for instance at one point the Catholic church condoned and encouraged men to seek out prostitutes. Things change and the people need to change as well.....

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joe_krumbach6806 said on January 24, 2012 at 2:23 PM

"Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801.

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soprema1 said on January 24, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Wow unbelievable. Seems to me you people made a CHOICE to be gay. Our society goes forward by MAN & Women procreating and creating Life. Just think if it were meant to be a gay society 100% of you would not even exist. But because YOU MADE THE CHOICE now we have to make changes just for you. Be carefully opening up Pandora's Box!!! Think of this, how about going back to Colonial time when it was OK for and Older individual to marry a much younger person. I mean if it's their CHOICE to do so why not. Of course there will be those who say because it is two consenting adults. Doesn't matter, again it's a CHOICE. I have nothing against gays but once you start giving rights to individuals because of their CHOICES you open up the door for all those who want to twist the laws to meet their CHOICES (life styles)

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NaeLea1981 said on January 24, 2012 at 1:41 PM

When this country was founded there was a definite want for separation of Church and State. This was done for a reason and it needs to be upheld. Your religious beliefs are yours , and in no way should affect what laws and bills are passed or not passed. To use a personal belief to keep people from wanting the same rights a heterosexual couple has no affect in what You personally believe, it doesn't affect how you worship, what you believe or what you teach your family and children. The LBGT community takes the right of marriage very seriously, this isn't just a fad to make a wave in social circles, this is an ability to say you are MARRIED to the person you love and cherish. People that are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or transgendered take our relationships just as serious as any hetero couple. We want to be able to have the rights everyone is entitled to in this country, Marriage being one of them.

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hiphop said on January 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM

david_reed............Jesteś osoba bez zelżywość

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Daisy5 said on January 24, 2012 at 1:23 PM

PLEASE stop comparing this to civil rights for black people. Relationships...whether straight or gay,right or wrong...are a choice. I have never met a black person who had a choice whether or not to be black. It is an offensive comparison.

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stonetrails said on January 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

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@tootoo - maybe, maybe not. Even so, the concept remains.

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David_Reed638 said on January 24, 2012 at 12:21 PM

hiphop - I disagree that Haugen "abandoned" her Christian Bible teachings, and she most certainly didn't abandon her consistuents. One can argue that Haugen's religion may help guide her decisions, but don't forget - she is supposed to represent ALL her consituents - not just the Christian ones. Grow up and accept the fact that not everyone believes in a floating father who walks on water, heals the sick and can live/die/reanimate just like a freakin' zombie.

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hiphop said on January 24, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Haugen has abandoned her Christian Bible teachings, and now her constituents...........................

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coffeeinseattle said on January 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

@emptynstr: Why do you need a line drawn? You seem to want to discriminate against people just because they are not like you. Since you quote religion so much, I take it that you go to church. If you find out that a gay person contributed to building of your church, does it make it any less sacred for you? All I am saying is that what others do should not rattle your faith and conviction. Apparently, you think your god will elicit vengeance on you if others don't follow what you perceive to be the word of god.

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emptynestr said on January 24, 2012 at 10:43 AM

@ Alberik So what's the difference between "marriage" and the "title" you want with the government? Why is the TITLE so important? Why aren't the benefits enough? I don't get it. If you aren't able to procrate why is marriage so important to you? I have had best friends but I didn't want to MARRY them.

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Alberik said on January 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM

@ Empty - I know a relationship takes work. I've been with the same man since I was 18, I'm 26 now. So my entire adult life with one person. Your argument is that my relationship shouldn't be classified the same as yours - why not? The drinking fountains for black people that were separated from white were the same drinking fountains, what was the big deal for them, right? My relationship is just as meaningful as any others - separate but equal DOES NOT WORK. It's not what our military sacrifices their lives for. We should all be considered equal. I don't care if my relationship is a "marriage" or not, as long as it's the same TITLE in the government as yours.

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emptynestr said on January 24, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Again I don't have a problem with same sex couples having the same benefits as people with straight marriages..Just NOT marriage. Why are the benefits not enough? Why is marriage being pursued to get the benefits? Where do we draw the line here? And when same sex partners divorce they will be in the same predicament as married heterosexuals and I guess you people want that as well? I hear criticizm about heterosexual marriages ending in divorce as an excuse to justify same sex marriage so what's your point? That "marriage" is destrucable and therefore desirable for same sex couples??? I am just trying to figure out the logic here. Any marriage has to be worked at in order to stay committed. But too many today aren't really all that committed...only as long as it has something in it for THEM and when it doesn't ...bye bye. And no one gets hurt? Give me a break. Then don't get married at all if you can't make a commitment to stay with that one person for life straight or gay.

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wawolf said on January 24, 2012 at 10:09 AM

I really don't understand the opponents of gay marriage. It will not affect straight peoples marriages. It would not require churches to go against their beliefs and marry same sex couples. It just allows same sex couples to have the legal benefits that everyone else does.

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emptynestr said on January 24, 2012 at 10:08 AM

I bet most of those who want same sex marriage are people who have not had closeness with a same sex parent in their lives or have had abusive or dysfuncional or absent same sex parents and are looking for love and affirmation from someone of the same sex. Also if we were designed for same sex procreation we probably wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

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musicfreak said on January 24, 2012 at 10:03 AM

This won't affect religious marriages at all. No church will be forced to perform these services. Only churches that WANT to perform them will "have" to do it. When you take the religion out of marriage, it's a civil, secular CONTRACT (that you have to have to get married, in a church or by a justice of the peace). I am religious, and because I'm religious I believe that I won't judge others for what they do in their lives, as long as no one is being hurt and they're consenting adults. If God wants to judge them, He will when that time comes. Other than that, I wish anyone who wants to be married good luck, and to realize you have to WORK at a successful marriage.

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Alberik said on January 24, 2012 at 9:47 AM

Whethere it's marriage, domestic partnership, or nothing at all - I don't care. As long as it's the same for straight people. Procreation isn't a reason to limit it to man and woman. Religion isn't a reason to limit it to a man and a woman in the eyes of the government. It harms no one, and there is no logical reason not to allow it. The only reason to be against gay marriage is your personal, religious beliefs - which don't belong in the laws.

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tootoo said on January 24, 2012 at 9:47 AM

@Gregory7 First off, calm down. Second, I don't think anything worse has happened to states that have legalized gay marriage versus states that haven't.

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dew615 said on January 24, 2012 at 9:01 AM

along with all of these marriages will come alot of divorces. Lets see how they like losing half their things. The lawers will love this. Let the fun begin.

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dinozzo said on January 24, 2012 at 8:40 AM

I hope they have enough votes in November to get re-elected!!

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tootoo said on January 24, 2012 at 8:04 AM

@stonetrails Didn't exist. 'Nuff said.

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vffrwm said on January 24, 2012 at 8:02 AM

Every one of these morons that voted for this bill need to be swept out of office in the next election. That should be the first question we ask ourselves going into the booth. Did this individual vote for the gay marriage bill and if they did they are history. I don't care what party they are from the people of this state spoke and they didn't listen so they go. These legislatures have violated the mose sacred law of all, the will of the people.

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stonetrails said on January 24, 2012 at 6:55 AM

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Sodom and Gomorrah... nuff said

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mdpylot80 said on January 24, 2012 at 5:10 AM

What a clever distraction as the State sinks deeper in Debt and lawlessness.Seems like the Legilators could spend their time focusing on more important issues that affect all of us.

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NickintheNW405 said on January 24, 2012 at 4:57 AM

All I can is how excited I am that this finally WILL get passed! I'm a 22 yr old male college student and myself as well as most all my friends are elated at the chance to finally see our gay/lesbian friends have the chance to marry. I must say I'm disappointed in the constant use of religion to justify answers. That so many smart Washingtonians can't form an opinion based on their own logic and reasoning. Please look past a 2000 year old document. The sun doesn't revolve around the earth, the world isn't flat, slaves are among the worst things humans have ever done and marriage does not have to mean between just a man and a woman. Even just a couple decades from now when gay marriage is normal and your child/grandchild asks, "Mom/Dad/Grand(ma/pa) did you help gay people finally have the opportunity to happy like everyone else?" Don't you want to be able to say yes? Or do you want to say no, I was stuck in old/broken thinking?

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gcawker said on January 24, 2012 at 12:15 AM

If a member of the legislature says he or she is a Christian, then how can they reconcile that with the Word of God in the Bible, which does not condone any such thing.

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emptynestr said on January 24, 2012 at 12:10 AM

One of the things I mentioned was that because liberal lawmakers made No Fault Divorce easy for more people to divorce that we have more people having less of an incentive to remain committed to their marriage partner. Lust and self-centeredness and rebellion is why so many people don't bother to make their marriages work. No matter what I would say however is going to convince some that hardness of heart is the reason people don't want to take marriage seriously. I said several other things but now I can't remember all that I did say now. Next time I will copy my answers and have them ready for recall.

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emptynestr said on January 24, 2012 at 12:05 AM

No I was NOT abusive. I just answered their comments and criticism. My comments were no less offensive than some of the ones who ignorantly critisized me previously. The truth hurts I guess. Probably struck a nerve.

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plungginalong said on January 23, 2012 at 11:51 PM

@soothsayer,,,because getting married to the one you love has nothing to do about Religion. It has to do with loving someone and also having the right like everyone else to be able to get Married. Gays are not going away, we have been here since the begining of time and will be here after the world one day comes to an end. Gays fight for our country and we are your brothers, sister's, cousin's, aunts, uncles and Fathers and Mothers. We come in all sizes and shapes and work in all fields in this country, and pay taxes like everyone else. Gays want equal rights not special rights.

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plungginalong said on January 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM

My story about me is I had a lover for 14 years. He was born with a bad heart. His heart would beat real fast. Well finally he had a heart attack and died..We was younger then. I worked and he was in college until he graduated on the Deans list..So with me working all the time I pretty much bought eveything and paid all the bills. His family was not for with him while he was alive but when he died they came knocking on my door thinking everything in the house was his. With his family not even knowing me they thought everything in our house was his. His family turned into vultures and thought they would take everything I paid for even although we both lived together for many years. But anyway had to find everything to prove I paid for it. I finally had to call the police and have his family removed from my property and to never come back. So this is just one thing by being gay we all have to sometime go through by not being able to get married. Just my story and one part of my life.

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soothsayer said on January 23, 2012 at 11:25 PM

I don't care if people make arrangements for any kind of legal association or arrangement they care to make. Rights of inheritance, visitation, ownership, custody, medical writs etc. But marriage is and has been a sacred contract throughout societies and the ages and history as a MAN and a Woman, The basic social frame work for thousands of years . Why is it now that smart 21st century man thinks he is so enlightened to know better? I want to know why gays feel they must force us ALL to accept the term marriage even if it against our religious beliefs. For I am sure that they will not be satisfied until that view is forced on everyone no matter how we talk about religious freedom. The " state" will hold religious institutions in contempt for not accepting these beliefs . That is currently being challenged in other venues as we speak when it comes to the Catholic charities adoption procedures in Illinois and the health care provision for abortion and birth control in Obamacare

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douglas_peterson said on January 23, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Absolutely right. The thing behind every war are people who think one way telling another group of people they have to think the same way. Something religious zealots are good at. Or money in some form . Point still being this is nothing to argue about. Equal rights are for everyone. Funny thing is something else could be formed giving all the rights married people get but that would probably get attacked to and for what?

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seakey said on January 23, 2012 at 11:06 PM

A couple of generations ago, when I was growing up in the South, interracial marriage was regarded with the same horror that gay marriage engenders today. No one today would consider the miscegination laws of that time anything but atavistic. Not many years from now, history will regard the anti-gay marriage laws as equally ridiculous. You can't legislate love. Look at the polls: 53-47 in favor of gay marriage. You yayhoos want a referendum? Bring it!

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 10:43 PM

And what was behind the religious wars that killed all these people, and still do to this day? The same thing that is behind the non-religious wars that kill people.

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Probably right, we will marvel at why this was an issue; when there are all sorts of more important issues to be dealt with. Maybe this is a just a perfect example of why society is collapsing around the world? The question is, will the signs be visible enough before it's too late?

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douglas_peterson said on January 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM

My how the religious and conserative "intellectuals" have come out here. Be great if they could speak out against what really has killed more people in the history of the world....religous wars!

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Thanks plungginalong; I'm attempting to make some sort of logical connection with some of these thoughts people throw out. I'm there with you on the structured religious tales. You keep plunggin, I'll keep thinkn . .

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cantora said on January 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Thank GOD!!! This is long since overdue and I couldn't be more proud of Washington and the legislators we've elected to get this passed. Kudos to all who worked and keep working towards equality in our state! Not long from now we're going to marvel that this was ever an issue to begin with.

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plungginalong said on January 23, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Its carzy because people keep throwing the Bible into this. And that God created man in his own image..Well if God created Man in his own image why do they have bones of early Humans when we couldn't even stand up on 2 feet. So if God made Man in his own image we was pretty hairy looking creatures and God had to look that way too. Or has God evolved with humans? For one thing no one even knows what God looks like. The Bible was wrote by a bunch of ole men and re-wrote to suit what they wanted for the Christian faith. The Christian faith has killed, raped woman and children and tortured and robbed people all in the name of God and Jesus. So I will believe in my own higher power that created us and the stars.

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vffrwm said on January 23, 2012 at 10:32 PM

The people already said NO. Hope all of these idiots will be looking for jobs after the next election. They can't balance budgets and they won't allow the people their will. Very bad.

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Aziza: My comment about god is not dependent upon any particular vision of god or messengers of god; or any particular color of or sexual gender of god. I did use the Christian Bible as my example, a very popular belief in the USA and much of the world. As for JC being dark or white, doesn't matter to me. I have no Bible myself, not that I haven't read many different books on god(s). Is your god a woman, what religion are you following? Some folks I know say that in Judaism god has no sexual reference. While studying the Judaic belief I did run across places where god happened to be referred to as a male. Regardless of what god is or isn't, it does not change the facts of reproduction of the human species.

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Leonaf said on January 23, 2012 at 10:06 PM

This is crazy!

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aziza said on January 23, 2012 at 10:00 PM

Thinkndo? Did you know that Jesus was dark skinned and not white as he is often depicted? Does that make all white people evil because God became flesh? ALL men and women are created in God's image. Who are YOU to say what resembles God? You can't. Consider this, IF as your bible says that we are made in the image of God then from MY perspective God is a woman.

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zb211 said on January 23, 2012 at 9:55 PM

Separation of church and state. Opposing gay marriage is largely a religious belief, and imposing those religious beliefs onto everyone is against the constitution. Individual churches should decide what they will honor as marriage, but the government shouldn't be getting in the way of those who believe in woman and woman or man and man marriages from getting them.

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Slawman said on January 23, 2012 at 9:54 PM

To those who oppose same sex marriage, if an establishment is willing to hold a same sex marriage, then that should be the end of the discussion. There should be no reason to not allow these marriages when others are lawfully allowed to do so. @mr_conservative: The "black people at the back of the bus" remark is a little uncalled for. MLK fought and died for the EQUALITY of ALL men and woman. It would be very hard to argue that he would fight for equality and then turn his back on the homosexual community.

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aziza said on January 23, 2012 at 9:53 PM

empty? Congrats on your 51.5 years of marriage. It's only fair that all people who wish to marry get to enjoy a chance at a long lasting marriage.

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MistofRain752 said on January 23, 2012 at 9:51 PM

daisy5 I whole heartly agree with what you have said. We agreed on the ballot for anything but marriage....because they threw in their that 2 elderly people that cohabit together would have a legal say when one was sick or such. Personally I think that was the only reason it passed. But the people have said over and over again NO! to same sex marriage. I know of adults and children that have been more messed up by gay and les. parents then non. I always wonder why it was so hushed up when the gay Dr. killed is partner in front of the little boy and he was naked........I am tired of having this issue shoved down my throat. Not only here in this state, but also by TV. We who are opposed to ssex marriage need to let OUR voices be heard more. What two consenting adults do behind closed door is none of my business. BTW when a couple of the same sex can produce a child between the two of them (without donors etc.) I would agree, but we know scientificuly that is impossible.

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Daytrader said on January 23, 2012 at 9:49 PM

Seems only fair to put the issue before the Washington state voters and see what happens, instead of having it decided by a bunch of idiots in Olympia.

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davebrownspoint said on January 23, 2012 at 9:40 PM

@empty you must have been abusive and offensive, I guess. There's a line you should not cross in good conscience.

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 9:33 PM

So KING-TV is censoring my answers to peoples posts on here that were directed to ME. How sad. I guess only liberals can speak their mind and be heard.

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 9:26 PM

What happened to my other two comments KING-TV?????

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 9:22 PM

By the way I have been married to the same (imperfect) man for 51 1/2 years.

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 9:19 PM

You say not to quote the Bible in my arguement but the fact is God gave man over to do what he ought NOT DO because of THE HARDNESS OF his heart. God only permitted it because man refuses to accept God and his devine plan for us. I can't convince any of you if you choose NOT to believe. There isn't anything I can say that would convince you otherwise because you CHOOSE to believe what you WANT to believe. Besides the things of the Bible are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. Looking at life in strictly human mentality anything you want to believe is right in your own eyes. However that doesn't MAKE it RIGHT. It just is right as you wish to believe it to be right. As for divorce..when our liberal lawmakers decided to institute NO FAULT DIVORCE..that made divorces much easier to get and of course, man being self-centered and selfish, will choose to lust after others and not choose to be faithful to one spouse for life. They refuse to take seriously the instituion of marriage.

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daisy5 said on January 23, 2012 at 9:18 PM

There you go again taclake... geesh! I believe in the institution of marriage.. between a man and a woman! I am not in any way, shape or form against people who choose to be in relationships that don't look like that! I am not a bigot because I believe it could impact my family... I am standing up for what I believe is right... just like you are and I am not calling you a bigot! And douglas peterson... read what I was saying, not what you were hearing. I was giving an example, not saying one had to do with the other. We have adopted and are foster parents thru 2 great private agencies, both of whom could be shut down due to this bill. My kids go to a private school which could be affected by this bill. My church could be affected by this bill. If you don't believe it, check out what has happened in the states/countries that have already legalized it. Don't put your head in the sand people... see it for what it is!

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM

To those who believe in a god, if JC was created in the image of man and it is okay for man to have a union with a man, then are you implying that JC was gay? That is the image of man that you are envisioning, right? Let's say you don't believe in a god of any sort, just evolution, evolution of man at this point says two men cannot create, nor can two women, without the opposite sex introducing the needed biological completion. Now, do you think the plan was for society to have same sex relations or not? For those who think this is the right decision, do you honestly believe that it is normal for members of the same sex to have sexual relations? To clarify, I am not asking if you think it is permissible, or okay; is it normal? Normal meaning, was mankind designed whether it was by evolution or creation to be this way?

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coffeeinseattle said on January 23, 2012 at 8:54 PM

To emptynstr: Nobody said "same sex marriage" is the answer to the society's problems. That is not the problem either. I don't see you waging a war against cohabiting couples before marriage. I want to see you picket TV stations that broadcast content that is morally unacceptable to you. Do you do any of that? I believe not because your book according to god does not mention anything about broadcasting. Do you not recognize the marriages of heterosexual couples who have not wed in a church or a religious institution? According to your arguments, their unions should not recognized by god since they did not include god in their marriage.

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mr_conservative said on January 23, 2012 at 8:54 PM

To all of you equating this issue with civil rights, it's a slap in the face of very black person who's had to sit in the back of the bus. But keep up your litany of liberal excuses why this perversion should be tolerated. Bring up the Old Testament scriptures regarding society at the time and try to apply them to today; bring up that you go to church on Easter & Christmas and how you think this is OK; bring up animals that have homosexual relations (1-2% of the animal kingdom); bring up the Bible verse about not judging (even though you're taking it out of context). Liberalism is a mental disease.

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coffeeinseattle said on January 23, 2012 at 8:37 PM

To emptynstr: And how do you know that God does not approve of the union? and please don't quote the bible. You do not have any proof that God wrote the bible. I too believe in god. But I also think for myself. I believe we humans have the power to think for ourselves which is given to us by our creator. Would it be okay for gays to marry if they do not believe in your god? Your god may not be everybody's god. What business is it of yours if someone else is sinning? You may remain "sin-free". What does your god have to say about prejudice? Do you seriously think that homeless children are better off in the foster system than in a stable home?

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grannydub said on January 23, 2012 at 8:37 PM

I don't anyone who opposes legal 'gay' marriage who is anti gay! I believe that all people should be treated with dignity and respect. But MARRIAGE is between a man and a woman. I have nothing else to add......

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taclake said on January 23, 2012 at 8:36 PM

To daisy5: > Legalizing gay marriage would infringe on MY family's rights No it will not. It is bigotry to imply it would.

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benjamin2010 said on January 23, 2012 at 8:34 PM

daisy5: Could you please explain how legalizing gay marriage would infringe on your family's rights?

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Ken_Andersond97 said on January 23, 2012 at 8:29 PM

1 man , marital union to 1 man, 2 men marital union to 1 man, 1 man plus marital union to 10 men. 1 man marital union to 25 men or maybe to 25 women. This is a breakdown of a normal human society based upon its design..

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benjamin2010 said on January 23, 2012 at 8:27 PM

I'm very curious about something. Many anti-gay marriage people are afraid that gay marriage will ruin traditional marriage. 50 percent of traditional marriages end in divorce, so it seems that half the time, male-female couples ruin it on their own. So how about someone files a public initiative to make divorce illegal? I'd be very curious to see how many people who want to defend marriage would vote for making divorce a crime. I'd like to hear from any gay marriage opponents. Would you vote to make divorce illegal? If not, why?

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Kids who are adopted also have a difficult time with their sense of identity and I have seen this first hand with a nephew of mine. There are many others who feel the same way. Adoption isn't the issue here. Granted there are many situations that adoption is the only option for a child such as a death of parents. But... because our society has become so promiscuous and disregards and disrepsects the devine plan for marriage the only outcome is what we now have...messed up kids, messed up parents, messed up society. And it is also costing us more in the long run to sustain broken people and broken families. Same sex marriage is NOT the anwer. Repentance is. But...sadly many people today are too full of themselves and their own "rights" and what not, that repentance is scoffed at. God will be the ultimate judge. I, and others who decry same sex marriage are just the voices in the wilderness sounding the warning and those who don't heed it will reap the consequences one day.

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douglas_peterson said on January 23, 2012 at 8:21 PM

Maybe because of the rights people gain simply because they are married and how gay marriage could possibly infringe on an adoptive mothers rights is laughable.

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Impact said on January 23, 2012 at 8:21 PM

If you hate gay people you are a horrible christian.

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daisy5 said on January 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM

So exhausted by being labeled a bigot if I don't agree with YOUR viewpoint. What about my right to have an opinion? Why doesn't it go both ways? Legalizing gay marriage would infringe on MY family's rights... why is that somehow more acceptable?? If we are going to have a civil debate about the ISSUE, can't we put the personal judgements aside?? The very definition of "marriage" is a union between a man and a woman? Where is the confusion there? I am an adoptive mom... I will never be able to be called his "birth mom"... that is not the definition of the word! Same rights, different name! What the heck is the issue here? If marriage is truly a "religious" institution, as many on this blog have stated, what is the urgency for the self-proclaimed "non-religous" to enter into it??

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM

To coffeeinseattle: I fear God (the master designer and creator of all) more than I fear man. God did not design two men and two women to be together. If He had then we woudn't be having this conversation now would we? I didn't make up our human anatomy and neither did you. So what is unintelligent about my views as you seem to think? That many who married didn't make their marriages work out is certainly NOT the fault of the Master Creator. It is mans sin that is at the root of that. People today just thumb their noses at anything that calls for obedience because man is basically selfish, self-centered and rebellious. As for adoption, children are still much better off in a two parent family..one mother and one father. How about lets hear what kids being raised in single parent homes and without a mom or a dad feel about this idea of same sex parents. Even kids who have been conceived by donor sperms etc. They ARE missing a piece of themselves. (to be cont.)

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daily_grind said on January 23, 2012 at 8:08 PM

I am a Christian - I attend church every Sunday. I have served as a missionary in Afrcia. I serve both in my community as well as at my chruch - I think service is a fundamental part of being and living Christian. I wholeheartedly support same sex marriage and think it's been a long time coming. It would mean the world to a number of my friends and co-workers to be able to share marriage vows. It would mean a lot to their children as well (yes,, biological children so the human speicies is not at risk by allowing marriage). I am a Christian that wants my Christian voice and Christian heart to be heard. I hope and pray that this passes, and I hope and pray that any counter measures fail.

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coffeeinseattle said on January 23, 2012 at 8:00 PM

To emptynstr: As someone has said before, do you not recognize a couple as married, if they chose to or are unable to procreate? Are all the couples who have procreated have an ideal marriage? There are 6 billion people in the world. Our species is doing very well to maintain itself. If a gay couple wants children they can adopt. This will provide better homes to the children who may end up in foster homes or bounce around the system. If marriage is reserved for "one man and one woman" then the said man and woman may never re-marry if their original marriage does not work out. Do you stand for all of that or are you only against gay marriage. FYI I am heterosexual but I find your arguments empty and unintelligent.

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Maybe they're hoping there will be a windfall of cash from all the gay marriages taking place? All those banquet hall rentals, wedding gowns, tuxedos, limousines, honeymoon suites, flowers, caterers, printing for invitations, the list goes on and on. This could be worth billions . . . . .

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BraveNewWhirled said on January 23, 2012 at 7:50 PM

Well, Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen has thus overwritten her Creator! She read heartfelt, sincere letters. The other letters were threatening and not so pleasant. Does she have any idea about the letters she would receive, should her opinion be contrary? She cites the "Golden Rule" as she shoves her belief down our throats.

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emptynestr said on January 23, 2012 at 7:49 PM

chuzzlethief Sorry that you think that people who don't agree with you shouldn't be U.S. citizens. I have been around a whole lot longer than you have my dear. You have much yet to learn. Marriage should be reserved for one man and one woman because only they can procreate as ThinkN-do said: "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival." and "Same sex marriage is not fundamental to our existence. If they rely only upon themselves to maintain our species, the species will disappear". Having some civil rights such as benefits is much different than MARRIAGE. And by the way I am NOT Catholic. But we have the same beliefs about the purpose of marriage. So quit just picking on the Catholics. Chrisitans do NOT "HATE" nor are we "BIGOTS" or "IGNORANT". Maybe some of you need to find out WHY we believe as we do instead of just being so hateful yoursleves.

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phil49 said on January 23, 2012 at 7:46 PM

All the Catholic church wants is to make more Catholics and same sex marriage and birth control would severely impact future church Revenues. Look at the third world countries where they are denying people the use of birth control when they are already living in poverty barely able to feed their children. It's a fact the the earths population is rapidly nearing the point where there will be too many people to be sustained by our diminishing food resources. Ocean sea levels are rising, reducing farming lands. The Catholic church is out of touch with reality and needs to catch up with the rest of the worlds realities. Attempting to influence our politicians with their oudated policies and beliefs is a violation of our Constitutional freedoms to not be hindered by any secular religious groups. They should stick to their flock..

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bbarber1 said on January 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Don't gays already have the same rights as straight married folks? Is this really necessary?

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chuckstr76 said on January 23, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Too bad they cant put as much effort into solving the budget issues....

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ThinkN-Do said on January 23, 2012 at 7:27 PM

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival." " Why are gay and lesbian couples civil right to marry being denied?" The initial statement describes marriage as being fundamental to our existence. Same sex marriage is not fundamental to our existence. If they rely only upon themselves to maintain our species, the species will disappear. Next question . . . .

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chuzzlethief said on January 23, 2012 at 7:25 PM

I am a young person, and it is good to see some change in the world. gay marriage would be something to celebrate! we are all US citizens, and being gay does not make us different. it makes us aware. I think that if you have something against this, you do not deserve to be a US citizen, because we all are supposed to get freedom and equality for all.

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phil49 said on January 23, 2012 at 7:22 PM

The Catholic church needs to keep their beliefs and interpretations to themselves. Many Catholics don't even agree with the churches outdated policies and beliefs. The church has no business telling us that a relationship between two people committed to each other must be to progcreate. Perhaps they fear a shortage of new Catholics, but if they let their priests marry that would not be a problem. Marriage does not require that they have sex. All these people want is an equal legal relationship under the marriage laws and its priviledges and protections. Let's keep the church out of politics and government. Look at the mess the church did in europe in the crusades. Only preaching from the Bible in Latin in early England so people would not know what the Bible really says. Killing and burning at the stake publishers of an english language translation of the Bible. Such church dominance is not welcome in this country. That is why we have a seperation of church and state.

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stealth4 said on January 23, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Just a thought. Since the Governor is not duly qualified to be in office, anything she has done or is doing is not legal. I won't get into the complete illegal issues, but will share a few The State constitution states before she was to take office she was to be duly qualified, meaning she must take the oath of office and it must be on file in the secretary of states office BEFORE she is to start her job. She also MUST have her bond in order BEFORE she takes office. She has not followed the law as required. Check out the facts for yourself. This means she is impersonating a Governor which is a felony. It also means her office is vacant. Don't take my word for it check out the laws for yourself.

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lmariec said on January 23, 2012 at 6:59 PM

It's about time--I hope this passes!

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coffeeinseattle said on January 23, 2012 at 6:55 PM

thinksmart: I think your moniker is an oxymoron. No one is forcing you to watch. If you are going to bring up the degradation of moral values, do you have a problem with scantily clad women and men making out. If you consider that amoral, then you should be running around protesting wherever men and women are not fully clothed. How do you get from two humans marrying to inter-species marriage? Light must bend around your head.

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torkezilla said on January 23, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Here's a novel idea,let the fine people of this great state vote on this issue.no one should object to that. RIGHT?

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eatmeat said on January 23, 2012 at 6:52 PM

If it passes, i can marry my friend. We aren't gay... but she needs health care, and I have an excellent health care program. It would help her out.

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Sadie1 said on January 23, 2012 at 6:50 PM

It seems to me to make this a equal rights and non-religious measure, the state should offer civil contracts or unions to BOTH heterosexual and homosexual couples with the same privileges and responsibilities This would be a legal license. Marriage should be a religious rite conducted by clergy. This rite would not have legal implications. If you want both you would have to get the license from the state and a marriage in your place of worship.

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hawksfaninsocal said on January 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Don't we have something better to do with our time?

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aziza said on January 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

thinksmart? I never said I watch- I keep my business private but I am SO thankful I can in this day and age be openly married to my husband. It used to be illegal not so long ago. People like you need to focus on your own happiness and keep their noses out of other people's happiness. Get over yourselves- I'm SO SURE that YOUR marriage is perfect.

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taylorwood said on January 23, 2012 at 6:26 PM

@mnorton: You made the statement "Based on your comment I'm able to ascertain that you're an older individual due to the ignorance and bigotry within your comment". Isn't that statement within itself "ignorant", and "bigoted"? Winston Churchill once said, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're 40, you have no head". I don't know if I'll go that far, but at the young age of 34, I do fully agree with the widely held assertion "the older I get, the less I know". Think about it.

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Matthew_Hens63b said on January 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

The time has indeed come to give homosexuals marriage equality. There is NO intelligent, logical, sophisticated, or moral reason as to why gays should not be allowed to marry the person whom they love. Whether you are gay, straight, bisexual, christian, muslim, or jewish, the right thing to do is grant full equality to every US Citizen so that we as a country can finally fulfill our founding fathers vision for a country where every man, every woman, regardless of their status, is treated and viewed as equal. No more should we as a people allow bigotry in any form, against any people, continue. It is time we as a human race, and Americans, look past our differences and love our neighbors, despite our differences. I ask anyone who opposes marriage equality to give me one legitimate reason (the bible is not to be considered a legitimate reason, as it was written by man and man is not perfect, nor is man’s word) as to how gay marriage will change straight marriage. With the United States

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kevinhin said on January 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

@invalid, I AGREE, can't believe they are wasting time on this when the state does not have a budget

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skok_cush said on January 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM

skok_cush avatar

In this Day and Age, I may loose my job and Need to Marry a friend or two for the Health benefits. . . . . .so party on. . . . .also maybe i can marry another friend and claim a few dependents. Im Straight, im just scouting my options.

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opagarden4645003 said on January 23, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Congratulations to the WA legislature and the people of WA. We are in the vanguard on this civil rights issue. Let us now vote for a Democrat House of Rep and Senate in the other Washington and repeal DOMA.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 6:04 PM

TO: yessir....good ..you have .'spoken' (vented) well....and I love it.....just to let you know, though, I am not a bigot.....live and let live....."live Free or Die".....is the NH state motto.....and I believe in it......and I don't care who is 'negative' or 'positive' as long as they don't discuss it with me PERSONALLY. A public forum is the basis of a Free Democracy....and that is what we are doing now....these States will pass, and abolish Laws in time.....some of which we, you and I will never live to see, or dream of......but the one thing that is important.....that it is done with a Free Speech and a Democratic process that many lives of our countrymen paid for.....so, what do we, you and I, do with that? .

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thinksmart said on January 23, 2012 at 6:01 PM

@aziza ~ Since I don't want to watch and you do it seems pretty self explanatory to me....

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aziza said on January 23, 2012 at 5:55 PM

thinksmart? So who is the pervert? If you don't like it, you don't have to watch.

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thinksmart said on January 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM

So what, If you want to tie the knot with your dog next are we to be forced to accept that as well and not have a gripe about our tax dollars being spent on that perversion as too? It has nothing to do with 'theocracy.' Don't stuff you perversion in my face thank you very much!

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invalid said on January 23, 2012 at 5:32 PM

OK, so can we get on with fixing the state's financial problems now, please?

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 5:30 PM

sir_kiris....can't be "a basis for public policy" which would have to be a law and not a policy.....'banning gay marriage' is not going to happen forever..... these states will enact, and abolish more and different laws in time.....and it takes debate, argument, referendum, decisions, polls, petitions to initiate them.....some which will pass.....some will not ....some of which we, you and I will never live to see happen or dream of........so no one has to "get fixed"....but I find it, amusingly so, you are having a good time twisting this around to gain an X for your own spotlight, aren't you?

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mnorton said on January 23, 2012 at 5:23 PM

@rubydog, I'm sorry to say this, but I am 17 years old and I can assure you that the majority of people my age support equality for gays and lesbians. Based on your comment I'm able to ascertain that you're an older individual due to the ignorance and bigotry within your comment. Your ideals are dying out and are no longer highly present in the generation of youth. Boo-hoo. Time to get over it, because if you're still alive while my generation is older and individuals from my generation are elected into congress and elected as president, the entire nation will see gay marriage legalized. Also, I advise that you get an education because you can't tell the difference between "women" and "woman" and you technically said marriage should be between a man and multiple women. In conclusion, your lack of literacy correlates with your bigotry and lack of knowledge of how the younger generation sees these issues. You are uninformed. Sorry :(

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 5:21 PM

To clarify, the mini-speech with regard to censorship of humor was in part directed toward the moderator(s) after a nearly identical comment I posted earlier (except with a pun referencing female dogs and minus the Mark Twain reference) was blocked, presumably because the "woof woof" comment was deemed inappropriate somehow. In light of the hate speech that has been allowed here, I found that highly offensive and decided to appeal to their sense of reason and respect for free speech. I'm happy to see that they got my point and allowed the comment. I hope they will show the same respect for the free speech contained in this comment.

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GregWolff said on January 23, 2012 at 5:17 PM

The 14th ammendment prevents the states ability to, “…make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; … deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” (Cornell Law School); laws that protect the civil rights of all individuals. In Loving vs Virginia, Chief Justice Warren of the United States Supreme Court said; "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law". Why are gay and lesbian couples civil right to marry being denied?

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 5:10 PM

@rubydog Yeah, civil rights sucks, don't it? I know this is a really controversially thing for me to say, especially compared to the hate speech other people have posted here, but hopefully free speech will be respected and this comment will appear. Why? Because ignorance should be drawn out and denounced for what it is. Humor is a valid mechanism for this. In keeping with that fine tradition that follows in the footsteps of great agitators such as Mark Twain, I can't help but observe that your screen name is quite fitting, seeing as how your post can essentially be summarized as: "Woof woof woof liberals woof woof!"

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myopinion said on January 23, 2012 at 5:02 PM

Good!!!

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David_Reed638 said on January 23, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Equality and/or civil rights should never be up to popular vote. Think about what America would look like today if abolishing slavery was up to popular vote, or allowing interracial marriage. Congratulations Washington on doing the right thing!

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GregWolff said on January 23, 2012 at 4:56 PM

The right for gay and lesbian couples to marry is likened to Loving vs The State of Virginia in which state law prohibited interracial marriage. the Supreme Court of the United States, Chief Justice Warren put forth a ruling that proclaimed Virginia’s miscegenation laws as invidious discrimination aimed at maintaining white supremacy (Loving v. Virginia). The color of the skin may or may not be different today, but the ethical measurement of preventing two persons from marrying, solely based upon a fact, or factors, that have no effect upon anyone except the way an individual is identified, is identical to invidious discrimination. These identification factors are being used as basis to deny gay an lesbian couples the opportunity to marry as in Loving v. Virginia. In essence if gay and lesbian couples are denied the right to marry and laws are create to do so, then the states are recreating and enforcing miscegenation laws that have already been found to be unconstitutional.

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coffeeinseattle said on January 23, 2012 at 4:55 PM

To Rubydog: "Marriage is man and women" - So you are advocating polygamy for men? Would you like that up for vote because your "religion" supports it? For all those who want to bring religion into the debate, you should also protest divorces since a man and a woman take oath in church that they will stay together "until death do us apart"

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musicfreak said on January 23, 2012 at 4:54 PM

@usagirl200x, you obviously have a reading disability. I said "It's not your place (mr_conservative) to judge anyone, it's God's job." First of all, I'm not a Bible thumper. I am religious, but I'm not one of the religious who wants to keep EVERYONE from having the right to marry. You're jumping on someone who isn't against gay marriage. Thanks for playing. Reading Is Fundamental (especially reading and comprehending what's being said).

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 4:53 PM

@SemperFi It would be, except you're saying it should be the basis of public policy, specifically as it pertains to banning gay marriage. So, under your proposal, gay people would be forced to be "treated" if they wanted equal access to marriage.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

sir_kris "so why bother the legislators with this stupidity....just go and 'get fixed'.....you'll feel fine afterwards."....is a VOLUNTARY option.....not FORCED. ---so.....????

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rubydog said on January 23, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Proof our state is getting too liberal. can not wait for our horrible govenor to retire. This should not be passing. Marriage is man and women. This is sickening and I'm ashamed of the state for passing.

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 4:40 PM

@SemperFi If you really have been a judge (of which I am highly skeptical), then that does not bode well for our justice system. I definitely would not envy any legal clerk forced to read through your legal opinions given your, umm, writing style. Regarding the gay people are bigots comment, you're right. I did misread your comment and I apologize. I missed the word "not" amist the various ALL CAPS lol. But with regard to forced treatment, I'm afraid that one you've gotta take ownership of. Here's the exact quote: "...so why bother the legislators with this stupidity....just go and 'get fixed'.....you'll feel fine afterwards." This was as part of your "car battery" comparison. So unless you were actually saying that we should literally get our car batteries fixed instead of having the legislature lift the unconstitutional ban on gay marriage..... :P

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KaninZ said on January 23, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Marriage IS a Civil Right. Civil Rights should NEVER be subject to popular vote. Popular opinion? Well, you know what those are like and everyone has one.

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KaninZ said on January 23, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Equality. It's the American thing to support. Theocracy? Not our bag, baby. You have your right to believe as you will. That right ends where it infringes on mine.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 4:33 PM

TO: sir_kris: ....read my comment again...I did NOT write that..."gay people are bigots".....and previously in my comment I did NOT imply any "bizarre analogy to justify forced "treatment" of gays"....just where the 'hail' you got that I don't know.....But, I DID IMPLY THAT I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 'POSITIVE' AND 'NEGATIVE' ....although you sound like you are familiar with a "electric shock fetish"....which sounds like shock threapy used in prisons for treatment on sexual offenders.....I'm not holding my breath for anyone.....I'm not gay....but I don't go around bashing them.....some of them are a helluva lot better to work with than just mouthy people.....I know....as I have been a Judge....tread on me some more....bring it on, mouthy.

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Those of you saying we should let the voters decide: Fine by me! According to an AP article updated today, 55% of Washingtonians said in a poll that they'll vote in favor of legalizing gay marriage if it's brought to a referendum while only 38% say they'll vote against it. So bring it on! Face it. Most of society has evolved past the ignorant, hateful bigotry that you're clinging to like a tattered safety blanket. You can either let go of it or be left behind in the dust. Nobody's forcing you to like it. Nobody's forcing you to participate in it. But society is in the process of deciding that it will no longer allow institutionalized segregation based on sexual orientation. You lost. Get over it.

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yessir said on January 23, 2012 at 4:27 PM

@Semper Fi... I couldn't agree with you more regarding free speech in America... And I understand the concept of how that is dearer to those who've served their country far more than you seem to suspect. Likewise, I have every right to recognize bigotry. I'm not gay my friend. Happily married to a woman with great kids. I have no particular interest in gay issues. What I do get a little fed up with however is this loud and judgemental segment of society that thinks they have the corner on patriotism and faith. I don't need to be homosexual to recognize the flagrant bigotry in some of these "chatting" comments. Yes... they have every right to say these things, provided they do not impede upon the rights of others... just as I have the right to show them for the hateful bigots that I clearly see them to be. Semper... Thanks for your service to our nation... not my particular branch, but I've great respect.

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 4:25 PM

@thinksmart Homosexuality is no more "perversion" than heterosexuality is. They both occur in nature. Gay and straight marriages can both involve couples unable or unwilling to procreate. Both involve, at least in most cases, some form of sexual activity. Both are between consenting adults. Therefore, you have zero basis for claiming it's an act of "perversion." And since your entire argument is based upon that faulty premise, well, it means you really have no argument at all.

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Sir_Real said on January 23, 2012 at 4:25 PM

As this does not affect me, let's hope the effect it does have is it eradicates all religious based morality from government and confines it where it belongs in churches! Being a Christian, Muslim, or Hindu should have no effect in government.

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 4:22 PM

@F.obama Last time I checked, procreation was not a prerequisite for marriage. Are you saying that it should be? If so, then I assume you believe that heterosexual couples who are infertile should also be banned from getting married? What about heterosexual couples who simply choose not to have kids? Marriage is not exclusive to procreation. If it was, there would be a lot fewer married couples. So that reasoning is disproven. With that rationale gone, all you're left with is the "traditional marriage" tagline. Only problem is, there's NO SUCH THING AS "TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE"!! The institution of marriage pre-dates Christianity by thousands of years (at least). Marriage between three or more people, people of the same sex, etc have all been institutionally accepted at various points throughout history. As for gay marriage being nothing like your marriage, aside from the anatomical parts involved, you have no way of knowing that. Gay marriages are no different; mutual love.

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 4:15 PM

@SemperFi I'm not sure how much credibility you have after comparing sexual intercourse to jump-starting a car battery, then using that bizarre analogy to justify forced "treatment" of gays. Sex is not like jump-starting a car battery. Well, not unless you've got some sort of electric shock fetish, at least. Ionic polarity as it pertains to electrical current is not a prerequisite for sexual pleasure (at least, not for most people; nobody's judging you, though). So when you claim that gay people are "bigots" because they have the audacity to say, "Yes, I'm gay. I'm not ashamed of who I am because I have no reason to be. I deserve the same rights as anyone else," don't hold your breath waiting for any sane person to take you seriously.

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nbynw said on January 23, 2012 at 4:14 PM

THANK YOU to all who have made this possible. You will be known and remembered as the forward thinking individuals who were on the side of right and fairness. Let the laws of the land be equal for all let the church remain separate from state. Marriage is a legal contract. Those who argue differently are confusing the issue with their faith which is equally important but SEPARATE. Marriage evolved as a legal contract to protect family land, wealth, and power. Those who disagree ask yourself what do you agree with; either you believe in the ideas of freedom and liberty for all or you don't. You can't be a little bit pregnant. Are you for these basic principles? You have friends and family members who are different from you...FACT. Some may have to live lies and hide their true spirt in fear of being alienated, ostracized, teased, beaten or murdered. All for being born different from "the majority". There's no "choice" about it. Ask yourself on which day did you choose to be straight

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 4:08 PM

TO: yessir....whose comment: "boy....this issue is really bringing the bigots out of the closet....so to speak....." ----Yes, and no, the "bigots" are not WHO is coming out of the closet.....and "so to speak" is your right....which I fought for....and I love to see ALL of the content of every comment that are submitted......makes the reward of it worth knowing that we still live in a Free country.....just try this kind of 'chatting' in another country.....where 'gays' are killed.

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dinozzo said on January 23, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Well, I guess we will have to have another iniatitive to show the State's Legislature that we won't be railroaded and told how things will be!!

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yessir said on January 23, 2012 at 3:56 PM

boy... this issue is really bringing the bigots out of the closet.... so to speak

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larryintumwater said on January 23, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Watching you good bible thumping folk spewing hate, lies and fear, to cover up your own sexual hang-ups, makes me sad that we live in the same country. It’s the same arguments used to fight integration of schools or giving woman the right to vote. That all proved to be false and the sun rose, moon set and you silly hateful folk will have to find something else to rile ageist.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 3:49 PM

....isn't all of this about 'getting laid'?.....I mean, some of us don't know where to put it in.....and that is where it all begins to get messed up with 'male-male' and 'female-female'. Example: If your car battery needs a jump-start and you mess up the 'positive' and 'negative' connections---you get a rather odd, but smoky and sparkly, outcome afterwards......which......needs a 'specialist' to get it 'fixed'.....makes perfect sense to me.....so why bother the legislators with this stupidity....just go and 'get fixed'.....you'll feel fine afterwards.

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plungginalong said on January 23, 2012 at 3:40 PM

@F.obama,,want to bet if Gays can't have kids..Guess what, they do have kids. Guess what, anyone that is Gay was also born from a family just like yours. Guess what, if a man and woman get married and can't have kids where do you place them at, because that happens all the time with man and woman that can't reproduce, he could be sterile and she may not have eggs, so if they can't have children does that mean you wouldn't call them being married? And there is a lot of people that get married and never want to have children so you must not think they are not married either by your comment or even get married. And for one people don't have to get married just have kids. People get married because they Love one another and thats for straight couples as much as gay couples. PERIOD.

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ruba61 said on January 23, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Let the people vote!!! NO GAY MARRIAGE!!! NO WAY, NO HOW!!!! Watching Steve and Rex french kissing in front of your children will p!$$ you off!!!

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mellybelly323 said on January 23, 2012 at 3:28 PM

I suppose, then, that any heterosexual couple who doesn't have a child together isn't considered married, either? Even if they are? Ridiculous argument.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 3:27 PM

usagirl200x....aren't you in the next room?....or are you the one down the hall from me?.....I can't 'text' any more as my thing is broken...... oooops!

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F.obama said on January 23, 2012 at 3:16 PM

Marriage should only be between a man and a woman. If a gay people would like there own form of union, be my guest. Bottom liine, I think it is wrong, and I will not condone it by letting them call it marriage. It is not the same thing as I have with my wife - never will be. Last time I checked there has never been a gay couple that could pro-create. Not going to happen - it is impossible. That is part of marriage, and thats why you can't call gay people married. PERIOD!

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thinksmart said on January 23, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Hey! I've got an idea..... Why don't we just legalize and sanction ALL forms of perversion? We could even TAX it. Maybe we could have Sandusky visit our state and tell us about how much he was in love with all his victims and just wanted the same rights as others. Then he could tell us of all the terrible abuse he's suffered because of intolerant and hateful people. My, My,..... We could all rally around him and give him a 'group hug' too! ~ These spineless politicians should ALL be thrown out of office! Legislated and sanctioned perversion! Doesn't anybody have any morals or a spine these days? PATHETIC!

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usagirl200x said on January 23, 2012 at 3:04 PM

@SemperFi, You're very funny, you remind of a guy I work with so I had to respond...I love it.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 3:01 PM

No one has answered or commented on my 'comment' and that makes me so angry that I could just rip the panties off my female sex partner and eat them. === 1. If a gay couple (2 males) live next door to a gay couple (2 female) and they experience infidelity with each other---which couple gets the dog? === 2. Do the (le)gal issues in this case become ill- or le- gal?......regarding as to how they were 'registered' originally???? === .......Ah-h-h-h the complexities of Life become more so as we stir the Pot of our Countries' Mix.....each adding their own little ingredient to spice it up and perhaps make it tastier or even hotter or both. === ---Prof.Marley

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freemonttroll said on January 23, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Since when has being gay been a "choice" of right and wrong? Harming the well being of others is wrong, and that is something you choose to do. As far as I can tell, I never "chose" my "lifestyle" (as some people refer to it as), it's the way that I am, it's who I am. How can falling in love and caring about someone with your whole heart and soul be considered wrong? How can wanting to make a life long commitment to that person be considered wrong? Being gay is no more of a choice then it is being straight.

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aziza said on January 23, 2012 at 2:54 PM

Ah... Let's hope that this is one of MANY things to come that the religious phobic zealots lose their say in! This will make my day!

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giffradish said on January 23, 2012 at 2:51 PM

gritz I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Our position on this is issue is unwavering. It has nothing to do with Mitt Romney running for President. We still believe that a marriage is between a man and a woman . NO OTHER WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Shaniqua said on January 23, 2012 at 2:43 PM

Religion is a sickness.

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SemperFi said on January 23, 2012 at 2:42 PM

If a gay couple (2 males) live next door to a gay couple (2 female) and they experience infidelity with each other---which couple gets the dog? ---Do the (le)gal issues in this case become 'ill-' or 'le-"-gal?......regarding as to how they were 'registered' originally???? .......Ah-h-h-h the complexities of Life become more so as we stir the Pot of our Countries' Mix.....each adding their own little ingredient to spice it up and perhaps make it even hotter. ---Prof.Marley

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usagirl200x said on January 23, 2012 at 2:40 PM

@music freak...are you kidding me, It's Gods job!!! You bible thumpers are just people who need someone to forgive your sins, why not create sins in the first place. YOu need a book to tell you how to live because you can't figure out right from wrong....

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musicfreak said on January 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM

mr_conservative, the primary commandment is love your God and love others as you would yourself. It's not your place to judge anyone! It's God's job.

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plungginalong said on January 23, 2012 at 2:29 PM

Bible Bangers,,have you ever thought a whole lot of people don't care about the Bible. It wasn't wrote by God or Jesus, it was wrote by some ole men and re-wrote many times. Homosexuals have been on this planet way before any Bible was wrote.

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tootoo said on January 23, 2012 at 2:25 PM

@mr_conservative Decades ago, a black man marrying a white woman was wrong. A lot of people would have said that they just felt it was wrong. Now if you were to say that today, people would think you are crazy and a horrible person. Does that mean that society went downhill because we allow miscegenation?

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Moonshinewilly said on January 23, 2012 at 2:23 PM

@tootoo you said "And if the majority of the country leaned to the right politically, our nation would be stuck as a British colony. Look at what gets done to move this country forward when conservatives have been in office." What? I cant do your homework for you but look up the following presidents who are "Right leaning" Lincoln, Grant, McKinley, T. Roosevelt, Hoover, Eisenhower, Regan. Try reading a book sometime.

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torqueflite843 said on January 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Congratulations to our friends in the Evergreen State from a friend in Colorado, and thank you, Washington state legislators, for supporting marriage equality! Particular thanks to the GOP legislators whose courage made this possible and to Senator Haugen as well. Best wishes to all people of good will in Washington state whose marvelous example will ultimately be followed by the remainder of our country.

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ithappensallthet said on January 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM

Right now there are way more important issues for this State to worry about.

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usagirl200x said on January 23, 2012 at 2:04 PM

fortmaster....thank you!!!

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forkmaster said on January 23, 2012 at 1:57 PM

With all the problems this state has to deal with, our legislature makes this a priority?? There are bigger fish to fry than this. Besides a gay lifestle is not normal. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and anybody who thinks different doesn't have their heads screwed on straight. Time to vote these gay liberals out of office and get this state and country back on its moral feet.

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gritz said on January 23, 2012 at 1:52 PM

Maybe Holy Matromony in your Church means between a man and a woman. But not all Churches share your view. More importantely, what makes your Church right and others wrong? Why should the State of Washington create laws based solely off of your religous preference? The constitution says all are created equal; not a majority, or those that have this type of skin color, speak this language or attend this Church or go to that school. Your relationship with God should be a personal one. I fail to see how someone having a piece of paper changes that relationship between you two.

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usagirl200x said on January 23, 2012 at 1:49 PM

SIR_KRIS, This costs the state money!! Is this the biggest problem we have in this state, I don't think so! If the gay want to marry so badly they can travel to the other states and do so. I think they have more rights today then they will if they marry. Since they are spending time tand money today, just let go though and be done with it. Let's talk about much more important problems in this state. Can we only fix the easy stuff.

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mellybelly323 said on January 23, 2012 at 1:43 PM

@coyotebmw - no doubt the "majority" decides. My point is - nothing would EVER change if there weren't a minority pushing for it. The majority are easily led. There was a time when the majority thought black people couldn't sit with white people. There was a time when the majority let millions of Jews be slaughtered. There was a time when the majority found it acceptable to keep others of different race as slaves. There was a time when the majority thought manifest destiny was a wonderful thing. The majority isn't always correct. And sometimes, you have to push the bounds of what is considered "socially acceptable" in order to grow as a people and as a nation.

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phantomrein said on January 23, 2012 at 1:40 PM

I am sorry that this state has to waste time and taxpayers money on voting for gays to get married. Why aren't they all over the fact that the Swinomish Indian Tribe is trying stop thousands of property owners in Skagit county from using their wells? Where the are all the congressman and Senators on this issue?

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mr_conservative said on January 23, 2012 at 1:38 PM

Jesus was not a bleeding heart liberal. He came to save Man from our sins. And homosexuality is certainly on the list of sins. But take Christianity out of it for a moment. As a child, I just knew that same-sex attraction was unnatural and morally wrong. Nobody had to tell me - it was just common sense. And now decades later, society is being told to celebrate this lifestyle...that's it's good and normal. Nope...it's bad and perverse. I'm sorry if you don't like those words, but sometimes the truth hurts.

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coyotebmw said on January 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Of course we all know that within 24 hours of Mrs. G signing the bill, a referendum will be started. Just like California.

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Sir_Real said on January 23, 2012 at 1:30 PM

I would agree with the civil union argument. Any consenting adult should be able to chose another consenting adult to live with, without worry of gender or race. They should be fighting to get government out of marriage and allowing any 2 consenting adults file for a civil union.

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Anonymous said on January 23, 2012 at 1:29 PM

The disparity that exists is basic human regard and legal respect and also has bearing on financial and real property holdings and proper management of all estate matters when some one passes away suddenly. It should not give financial institutions / or public entities the right to behave like thieves or self serving principles of an estate that they are a part of at some one's demise/ sudden death/ or being the heir to the estate. When dealing with this type of illegal behavior from financial institutions it has had sizable impact on how the estate matters could be carried out, the disbursement of payments to creditors, and completing how the estate should be settled and finalized in the eyes of the law...Even how tax returns should be completed. There are mare ways this bill would enhance how the State does business with all of its citizens who vote, have families, pay taxes, and eventually die or pass-on to others what their level of import is in our society.

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coyotebmw said on January 23, 2012 at 1:23 PM

@yessir, Well Said! Civil Unions, Yes, "Marriage" should be reserved for the religious organizations. @mellybelly323, last time I checked our nation was defined as majority rule, otherwise we have anarchy.

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Anonymous said on January 23, 2012 at 1:22 PM

.I want this measure for gay marriage to pass so no else will be treated as rudely or without respect as I had to endure this entire past year. I view the banks behavior as criminal and discriminatory in nature. We had 19 years of common domestic partnership with only one year as registered domestic partners...This gave our community in the Tri-Cities an excuse to act illegally and without regard to WA state RCW s and the actual rights that I have as sole heir to a very sizable estate. This is just one story among many you will hear from people within our state that demonstrates why gay marriage should be legal and witnessed in the eyes of the law and our state legislature.

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Anonymous said on January 23, 2012 at 1:21 PM

I received better sympathy and great customer service at the Funeral home than what I did at the Credit union to solve our debts and remaining accounts that were made jointly responsible by the community property agreement and carried a total dollar amount of over 100K in monetary value. The credit union also opened and voided the safety Deposit box that was a part of the estate without me being there to physically witness it being opened, They were claiming there was no contents of value and it was empty...Then they started harassing me in my work place and sent flyers for life insurance premiums in Davids' name after I had shown them his death certificate when he passed away. Then they had the audacity to say David had another social security # and address and was listed as married when questioned by my attorney....I want this measure for gay marriage to pass so no else will be treated as rudely or without respect as I had to endure this entire past year.

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JusticeforAll said on January 23, 2012 at 1:20 PM

No one is free or treated equality unless we all are free and equal. This isn't a waste of time or money. When your rights to provide for your family, those you love and to join in a commitment are taken away then you'll not think it a waste of money or time. Peace and thank you Mr. Murray for being tireless and patient through the many years to get our community (all of us) to this point.

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gritz said on January 23, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Don’t you think it’s funny how we haven’t heard a word from the LDS Church? After spending millions and actively campaigning to repeal California’s law, we haven’t heard a peep here. Do you think their silence is in direct correlation of Mitt Romney running for President? Not to create an issue, that would make him and his Church’s actions an issue. The Church has taken the “low road” and has shelved its discontent. Kind of a reverse Church and State policy they usually align themselves to.

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yessir said on January 23, 2012 at 1:18 PM

oops... make that civil unions

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shoreline said on January 23, 2012 at 1:17 PM

It really doesn't matter what the Legislature does with this Bill. The "losing" side will certainly end up forcing an initiative that will require a public vote in the end. Everyone will have their say and right or wrong, the majority will decide. Let it rest people.

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yessir said on January 23, 2012 at 1:16 PM

In my opinion, government shouldn't be in the marriage game at all... just "civic unions" and leave it to churches and other insitutions to perform "marriages"... then govenment is completely out of the entire debate, and if someone has an issue with one church, they can either attempt to bring about church, or find a more accepting church to perform their ceremony. From the government's standpoint this should be a contractual issue... nothing more.

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Legalizing gay marriage has nothing to do with forcing people to "accept" it socially. I mean, you don' thave to "accept" interracial marriage socially if you don't want to. Making it legal does not mean it's mandatory. If you don't want to participate in or endorse a gay wedding, this law will not force you to. What this law does is finally grant equal civil rights to all our citizens, regardless of sexual orientation. It's about damn time!

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sir_kris said on January 23, 2012 at 1:14 PM

@usagirl200x Speaking of non-sequiturs.... Why, exactly, is granting equal rights to state residents not something we need to address? Are you saying that anything the legislature discusses must immediately create jobs or they shouldn't discuss it? Or are you just using that as an excuse for not wanting gay people to get married?

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usagirl200x said on January 23, 2012 at 1:10 PM

WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING WE NEED TO ADDRESS AT THIS TIME IN THIS STATE...LET'S HELP PEOPLE GETS JOBS AND OFF THE STREET.

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mellybelly323 said on January 23, 2012 at 1:04 PM

@Akogot - "IMO, all that allowing gay marriage is doing, is forcefully making it socially acceptable, no matter the situation." I'm certain that's what opponents to inter-racial marriage used as their argument... IMO, all that allowing a white man to marry a black woman (or visa versa) is doing is forcefully making it socailly acceptable, no matter the situation... Yeah... Viewing it from that stand-point, look at how silly an argument it seems now. The herd as a whole isn't always right. The majority doesn't always have their head screwed on straight. Thank you for demonstrating this point so well.

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quiquine61 said on January 23, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Just like religion is an individual matter, being LBG is a matter of individuality.. It's about love and commitment... What is wrong with that? Live and let live, I say!

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Conseula said on January 23, 2012 at 12:44 PM

I plead ignorance..Didn't California pass same sex marriage couple years ago and then it was vetoed? Does that make those gays and lesbians who got married during that time void? @joshiii..I think your comment was elequent and well stated..I find those religious zealots that are so quick to condemn others for whatever, usually have things to hide themselves..Cliche...PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES. I remember a preacher who preached that gays and lesbians are sexual deviants was caught having a two year or so affair with another man and he in fact was a homosexual..

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collentine1 said on January 23, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Marriage is for a good man like me, and a good woman to raise their family. Marriage is not about playing house. Let the people decide. Wish Gregoire had the courage to say that.

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tugthug said on January 23, 2012 at 11:40 AM

The state gave them the inch, now they want the mile!

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Akogot said on January 23, 2012 at 11:39 AM

IMO, all that allowing gay marriage is doing, is forcefully making it socially acceptable, no matter the situation.

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tootoo said on January 23, 2012 at 11:13 AM

@mr_conservative I don't like bringing religion into a topic that has nothing to do with religion, but: Wouldn't Jesus literally and figuratively a bleeding heart liberal who completely overwrote the outdated and irrelevant Old Testament? Seems like the laws of God run VERY contrary to conservatism. And if the majority of the country leaned to the right politically, our nation would be stuck as a British colony. Look at what gets done to move this country forward when conservatives have been in office. But back to the topic at hand: If legalization of gay marriage were to happen, would that make you love your wife less? Would it make you divorce her out of protest that marriage isn't defined to what you personally believe? Would it have made you never marry her in the first place? If no to all of these questions, then it seems like gay marriage doesn't affect you or your marriage in any way, so why should you care?

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Sir_Real said on January 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM

I've gotta laugh! My previous post was built on mockery, while Mr. Conservative basically said the same thing, but his post had a burning heart of hatred behind it, which offered more skewed "passion".

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1beachperson said on January 23, 2012 at 10:20 AM

I don't see what the big deal is. If 2 people want to be married under the state or local guidelines and laws, let them. Separation of church and state - so religious beliefs should not be guiding the legislature. Who cares if they're "married" or not? I don't care when a straight couple choses to "live in sin" without the benefit of marriage, why should I care if a gay couple wants to live together WITH the benefit of marriage? I'll not push my religious beliefs on them, and they won't push their gay beliefs on me!

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javajoe said on January 23, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Since proponents for gay marriage argue that same-sex couples should have access to the same benefits as that of a married man and woman why then can't the same argument be made for siblings that want to take care of one another? For example, shouldn't healthcare coverage be provide for siblings that are living together when one has coverage and the other doesn't? Should they be able to get married to make this possible? No!? Does this make you a siblings Bigot?

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Daytrader said on January 23, 2012 at 10:01 AM

60,000 people without power, a massive cleanup needed, state is broke and out of monies, but lets have public hearings on gay marriage, ya sounds about right for Washington "head in the sand" elected officials.

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spacedover said on January 23, 2012 at 9:31 AM

I somehow don't see this as a priority in state issues or did the budget get balanced last night?

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josh_iii said on January 23, 2012 at 9:02 AM

I always thought religious people were suppose to be to teach tolerance, peace, love thy neighbor, blah blah blah. Yet you go around saying that gays and lesbians are sexual deviants and go against the "laws of nature". What a bunch of narrow minded, ignorant people you are. Did any of you make a conscience decision to be attracted to a particular sex? NO, you just are. You really think gays and lesbians make the decision to be that way? It's your God that made them attracted to the same sex, the same way anyone else is attracted to the opposite sex. And speaking of the "laws of nature", you may want to do a little research, because homosexuality occurs in other animals in nature. Again, your God made them that way. Don't even get me started about the Catholic church protecting preachers who molest boys. Apparently religion can be twisted around to serve any particular view point.

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mr_conservative said on January 23, 2012 at 8:27 AM

@tootoo - Conservatism does not run contrary to the laws of nature or the laws of God. The majority of American society leans to the political Right. Looks like you're the one in the minority.

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tootoo said on January 23, 2012 at 7:41 AM

@mr_conservative I consider conservatism to be offensive and conservative behavior/lifestyles should not be considered normal for the good of society and civilization. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me. Does that mean that we should ban conservatism?

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andyblue555 said on January 23, 2012 at 2:06 AM

andyblue555 avatar

It is now believed by many that Archbishop J. Peter Sartain of Seattle has violated the guidelines for any organization receiving tax exempt status with his push to control the rights of our citizens by sending church bulletins out telling people to fight to deny gay and lesbian tax paying citizens their right to marriage. Specific instruction to parishioners to engage in direct political action against any minority group goes outside the bounds of protected religious organizing and expression and becomes political organizing and expression.This stance is purely political. It is not a call for his church members to abstain from homosexuality; it is a call for members to impose church beliefs on everyone else through our laws. I find it disgraceful that the Catholic Church in Seattle is pushing disdain and contempt of others to parishioners throughout the State of Washington. I have decided to file a formal complaint with the IRS (form 13909) and encourage others to do the same.

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tikab1 said on January 23, 2012 at 12:35 AM

separation of state and church is so important and our founding fathers knew that while writing the constitution. keep your nasty religious views out of politcs and stop disprecting the constitution. let the gays marry already. wasn't it the late 1960s (!) when it became legal in this state for black and whites to marry? it was.

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Sir_Real said on January 22, 2012 at 11:48 PM

This is why we need more conservatives in office. We republicans know government is not meant for the liberal agenda of "respect", but just here to channel god's will. If it were up to god and us republicans, gays wouldn't even be Americans, let alone people. Vote for Rob McKenna & Mitt Romney.

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schreecher2 said on January 22, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Marriage is reserved for a man and a woman together forever for life. I am not against Gay individuals at all, and they can partner up with whomever they choose. I will be praying for this state.

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ricberrong said on January 22, 2012 at 9:37 PM

People against Gay marriage seem to be against love and devotion. It's interesting that those against Gay marriage have been divorced. If you cannot practice what your preach, well, honestly, who are you to be judging anyway. Allow love and devotion to thrive.

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javajoe said on January 22, 2012 at 8:06 PM

Pray for out state.

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