Some doctors refusing to treat families with unvaccinated kids

seasaw said on February 27, 2011 at 1:48 AM

There's legislation in Olympia to demand that certain other nonprofits state -- up front -- what they are NOT offering (before any pregnancy services are offered). Sounds like we need to put these doctors on that track, too. Choosing a physician who takes your insurance, and then waiting for an appointment -- not the time for surprises. It would seem that society would be better served if these put a priority *on* seeing the unvaccinated if they truly believe it's a risk to society. Otherwise I hope the insurance companies hear of their arbitrary behavior. And if the state allows it then the pharmacists who don't want to offer death drugs, take note.

grizzlyironbear said on February 27, 2011 at 12:26 AM

This doctor honestly should have his license to practice revoked as his statements have gone totally against the oath one takes to BE a doctor. Now, with that, I personally believe that we should place immunizations on the "no child gets left behind" idea. As a loving father, I want to see my children healthy ALL of the time. To not get an immunization just because i can't see a reason right now is insane. Every day I look into my children's eyes, and every day i am renewed in my stand to raise my children the happiest, healthiest way I can. And that included ALL of the immunizations.

countrygurl3 said on February 25, 2011 at 3:58 PM

WTH? Who does this doctor think he is to bully and intimidate parents? It is our RIGHT as the child's PARENT to ask questions. And if we deem it appropriate, to deny non-essential medication. I have friends who deny vaccines based on their religious beliefs. Is this doctor actually suggesting the medical community discriminate against these children??? What a tool. With that being said, I support vaccines, but this is a choice. If parents are concerned about the effects of vaccines on their children, look it up on the CDC website. Manufactures are required to list all ingredients. Parents need to weigh the costs vs. the benefit of a vaccine. The likelihood that your child will contract a disease is FAR greater than the chance of a complication. In the end, it is a choice to be made by the parent(s). In return, parents need to be informed - not bullied by advocates for or against vaccines.

healthmn said on February 25, 2011 at 11:22 AM

The question isn't if these diseases can kill, it's about whether vaccinations really do prevent them. I'd love to think that a simple shot can do that, but unfortunately there is really no proof. Many of the serious disease were already in decline with improved sanitation and nutrition prior to the mass vaccinations. Small Pox for one poses a serious threat, no doubt. Do we really have all of the facts on if the vaccine is really the reason why this disease went into 'remission' (rather than eradication)? These immunizations weaken the immune system, not strengthen it. According to the Philippine Health Ministry, the death rate from Small Pox went up dramatically after implementing the vaccinations. In the 1918 epidemic, death rate was up to 65% from the 10% pre vaccine rate. Just like with many diseases, they come in cycles. And yes, Bird Flu, Small Pox, etc. will be back. And I hope that we have more research by then to truly prevent the diseases, not Shots In The Dark.

quidproquote said on February 25, 2011 at 11:07 AM

@imdixiediva - Here you go- Beginning in April 2009 there was a large outbreak of measles in Bulgaria, with 23,791 cases, including 24 deaths, reported up to 28 July 2010 -- Approximately 1000 cases of the disease were reported in Israel between August 2007 and May 2008 (in sharp contrast to just some dozen cases the year before).--In 2007, a large measles outbreak in Japan caused a number of universities and other institutions to close in an attempt to contain the disease--By July 9, 2008, a total of 127 cases were reported in 15 states, making it the largest US outbreak since 1997 (when 138 cases were reported).[24] Most of the cases were acquired outside of the United States and afflicted individuals who had not been vaccinated.--After vaccination rates dropped, the incidence of two of the three diseases increased greatly in the UK. In 1998 there were 56 confirmed cases of measles in the UK; in 2006 there were 449 in the first five months of the year, with the first death since 1992

imdixiediva said on February 25, 2011 at 11:06 AM

Here is the FDA link to the vaccine ingredient labels: They indicate the carcinogenic and mutagenic effects have NOT been evaluated. Nor the potential to impair fertility. No "expert" can declare that vaccines are "safe" when these studies have not been done!! The Tripedia vaccine on page 11 indicates AUTISM is a potential side effect. Who knew vaccines and autism were linked by the vaccine MAKERS and not by a British researcher who was subjected to a witch hunt? The "safe" Rotarix and Rotateq were found to be contaminated with the PCV1 and PCV2 pig viruses last year. Read the LABEL, these are not "safe" even though pro toxic poison "expert" media darling Paul Offit SAID so. With NO "science" to prove it!!

imdixiediva said on February 25, 2011 at 10:56 AM

And quidproquote, Where is the death and scourge that we were fear- mongered by the "experts" after the sensationalized tabloid media hype in the UK following Wakefield's Lancet paper? 10 years in the absence of the necessary uptake of the MMR for the imaginary "herd immunity," people should be dropping dead in the streets of London by now!!! What happened to the horrible impending measles "epidemic????"

quidproquote said on February 25, 2011 at 10:39 AM

@healthmn - You know smallpox has been eradicated right? It had 30 to 35% mortality rate. We develop it in labs as a biological weapon because it is so dangerous. But lets talk about diseases that we haven't eradicated - Whooping Cough has a 1% mortality rate in infants and also causes cerebral hypoxia and apnea and the mortality rate has gone up in the last 20 years. Lets talk about Measles which .3% fatality rate in 1st world countrys but a 28% fatality rate in immunocompromised patients and 3rd world countries. How about Polio which is making a come back due to failure to vaccinate - 5-10% mortality rate on average, with a up to 75% rate of death in patients with Bulbar Polio. Now I can completely understand doing a spread schedule with vaccines if you are worried but completely writing off vaccines is only something a fool would do.

healthmn said on February 25, 2011 at 9:52 AM

The world has always had sheep who don't question authority. It's hard to believe that people once believed that the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. Even with 100% vaccination rate, all illnesses would not be eradicated. Vaccines are not 100% effective and are questionable as to the potential damage. You are allowing your kids to be guinea pigs when they get these shots. I have a darling little nephew who now has tremors and twitches, he was perfectly healthy prior to getting his first flu shot. Here's something people can do to help prevent spread of disease, wash your hands. I'm shocked at how this simple and effective habit is often ignored. I'm more afraid of the adults and kids (over unvaccinated kids) who've had multi doses of antibiotics. That alone has created super bugs that kill.

quidproquote said on February 25, 2011 at 9:17 AM

@jewels4girls7218 You know kids are different right? I don't have children myself but my brother sister and I were all vaccinated the same way. My brother and sister were always healthy with very few sicknesses and I was always sick and came down with pneumonia twice along with alot of wicked bouts of the flu and bronchitis. There is literally no science to back up not vaccinating. A few celebrities and a single scientist who was stripped of his medical license for rigging his study does not make science or a good reason to stop vaccinating.

nessy1980 said on February 25, 2011 at 5:53 AM

That is not fair. My oldest is vaccinated and he was always sick when he was younger. He is in special education and is allergic to everything. I blame the vaccines. So I know that a case like my oldest is in my gene pool. My middle child is partially vaccinated and my youngest isnt. Call me what you want but you will never understand the pain I go through as a mom when my son will always be labled slow. Never once the issues with my son was put on vaccines. I find it ironic though he was normal until 1 year. If vaccines arent so bad why cant you sue the makers of them? Parents will do as they please but dont bash a none vaccinating parent until you've walked a mile in there shoes before.

aunt_rie said on February 25, 2011 at 1:01 AM

Check out Doctor Mercola's website, and search for vaccine information, you will find plenty. Delete that King 5

j1979 said on February 25, 2011 at 12:19 AM

Wow, with the ignorance in the arguments I am hearing from parents who don't immunize, it's no wonder why their kids are being abused and put at risk and they seem to see nothing wrong. We have erradicated several deadly diseases..or at least thought we had until we started letting idiots make their own decisions, many times based on info from a stupid girl who used to pose nude. First, immunizations DO NOT immunize against colds. Even the flu shot only protects against certain respiratory flu strains. But you know, people dumb enough to misunderstand vaccinations and not research can make these decisions that affect the rest of us??? Second, if you have state-paid medical, it should be required. Third, ok, so don't vaccinate. It's called survival of the fittest and maybe it's better your lack of brains doesn't get passed on to future generations. Man people, educate yourselves. If not, maybe disease control costs can come directly out of your pockets.

wmdkitty said on February 24, 2011 at 11:27 PM

Any "parent" that chooses not to vaccinate is guilty of child abuse.

rnl52 said on February 24, 2011 at 8:47 PM

Don't blame them. Un- vaccinated kids are a risk to every one of the Doctors patients.

ellemarie said on February 24, 2011 at 5:40 PM

Do you people who don't vaccinate ever think about the children or adults you are putting in harms ways?? That your unvaccinated children can spread disease & cause death to kids battling diseases like cancer or those with compromised immune systems?? I am sick to death of this "me, me, me" generation & their attitude that no one else in the world matters as long as I get things MY way. You are being selfish, plain & simple. You are not only risking your children's lives & health, but that of other innocent children. There is no logical reason not to vaccinate. Get some facts from reliable sources! This no vaccinate trend is nothing more than a ridiculous fad fueled by the media & ignorant celebrities. You people need to grow up & take responsibility for not only your children's health, but of the people that live all around you.

beldock said on February 24, 2011 at 4:02 PM

@zosma REALLY???!!!! Then somebody better inform the schools because I volunteer at my children's school and they have never heard of these exceptions in fact my children and others were denied access to school until shots were caught up and I know of at least two family's that were forced to home school due to certain vaccines being against their religion so either your wrong or what the school did was illegal...........interesting, Ill be checking this out!!!

healthmn said on February 24, 2011 at 3:23 PM

Should doctors refuse to treat unvaccinated kids? If so, then please add to the list; kids who are sick with flu or colds as they will spread their germs to others in the waiting room, overweight kids due it's their parents uneducated negligence that made them that way, kids with any behavior issues, kids who get hurt after an accident-especially if they weren't wearing a helmet-it's their own darn fault. Yes doctors, please only treat the healthy kids...oh my, then you may not have any patients to treat. Most of the diseases went away in our society due to better sanitation and hygiene, and nutrition standards. Many new and hard to pinpoint illnesses have cropped up with the increase in vaccinations. Even though the idea' of vaccinations protecting our kids is a desirable one. Until we have all of the facts, you have to question if we are doing more harm than good by injecting these substances into the body.

zosma said on February 24, 2011 at 1:25 PM

@beldock ....you're wrong, the state of WA offers exemptions. Children absolutely CAN go to school w/o being vaccinated. There are philosophical, religios and medical exemptions available.

beldock said on February 24, 2011 at 1:04 PM

My doctors office has toys, books, and magazines that sick people in the packed waiting room pass around all day. I try not to go to the doctors because you might go in with one thing and come out with something worse! As far as kids not being vaccinated, the numbers have to be few because you cant go to daycare or school with out you vaccinations. @jewels I hope your wealthy stay at home mom and can home school your children otherwise your children will need a whole lot of shots to catch up. and @spypappy i agree with you 100% but be careful, their are a lot of documented cases where parents have wrongfully lost their rights to their kids due to "neglect of providing proper health care" I highly recommend a movie called "FIRST DO NO HARM." A true story about a familys struggle to protect their child from doctors that almost killed their son with experimental treatments. When they tried to remove him from the hospital they were threatened with arrest for abducting their own child.

jewels4girls7218 said on February 24, 2011 at 12:38 PM

I will honestly say, I am a parent who has chosen NOT to vaccinate my children. This was a long process and tons of research on my part. My son was vaccinated up till he was 4, prior to this he was sick ALL the time, ear infections, nose bleeds, hyperness, etc... As for my daughter she was never vaccinated has been sick ONCE in 2 1/2years with a mild cold. Both of them are healthy, happy kids. For someone to tell me I HAVE TO Inject my children with live virus(s), and god only knows what else, like pig guts etc.. is absured. I as the parent have the right to say YES OR NO.. I love my children and want the best for them. How can someone say, because my child is unvaccinated that they are doing harm to others that are vacccinated? If you truely belive the vaccination protects you, then you shouldn't worry about those who aren't!

spypappy said on February 24, 2011 at 9:35 AM

@underserf - Where in my entire statement did I say that I don't immunize my children? I have five. None of which have health issues related to inactivity, improper nutrition, living in an unhealthy environment (we don't smoke), and they get regular preventive medical care. My point is that we as parents are ultimately the ones to decide our childs treatment plan. I have a lot of experience with doctors who think they dictate what will happen due to one of my children having severe issues related to Cyto Megalo virus (CMV). I have had doctors argue with me for treatments that would actually harm her because I am an informed parent and know my daughter's disease better than most medical providers. Should we refuse medical care to those who engage in activities that will surely lead to health problems? There are many examples of medications and vaccines that have been used for years and later found to be harmful. Medicine is no longer an art but a multi-billion dollar business.

bucadia said on February 23, 2011 at 8:54 PM

I'm with "minority view"- I'm very interested in seeing some data on the topic of who is actually costing the system more. My money is on those who don't vaccinate, or who selectively vaccinate. Research has shown that most parents who don't vaccinate are more educated on average than those who do, so they take their child's health very seriously and most (if not all) make the decision with a great deal of forethought.

minorityview said on February 23, 2011 at 8:37 PM

I think the idea of differential rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated children is great. Of course it will be necessary to actually compare the usage of health services by the two groups and see which category costs more. This is a great opportunity to show parents who don't vaccinate that their children are sickly. The only problem is that in real life...it might not turn out as planned. I know quite a number of children who are unvaccinated or selectively vaccinated and most of them are quite healthy. My grandchildren, aged 11 and 7, to offer one example, have never been on antibiotics, have never been hospitalized and have never, in fact been seriously ill. Except for regular well-baby visits and a few minor problems, they've never needed to see a doctor. Plus, of course, by skipping the vaccines they saved the insurance company well over a thousand dollars. If the vaxed kids have higher costs, will their premiums be raised?

underserf said on February 23, 2011 at 8:37 PM

yeah, spypappy, YOU choose to threaten other peoples lives with YOUR decisions. You get to to go to prison on manslaughter charges or at the very LEAST, get SUED for YOUR decisions threatening others' lives. With modern DNA testing, it's fairly simple to prove WHO brought a virus to school or exposed immuno-compromised adults to a easily preventable disease. Get over yourself, you don't live in a bubble.

aziza said on February 23, 2011 at 6:14 PM

Keep the herd healthy. Think about it, people who don't immunize put the elderly and babies at risk. People forget that these diseases kill. I agree, people who don't immunize need to pay higher premiums.

noskills said on February 23, 2011 at 3:17 PM

I tell my patients this.....If you don't vaccinate your child and they get sick you will feel like the worst parent in the world. If you vaccinate them and they get sick from the vaccine you will feel like the worst parent in the world. So do your own research, ask questions and then make a decision on what you feel is best for you and your family. It is not for me or any other health care provider to tell you what you have to do. It is our job to give you the information and educate you so you can make your own decision on what you feel is best for your health and the health of your family.

kenzieeee said on February 23, 2011 at 12:14 PM

I agree with the Dr. I also worked in childcare for the past 4.5 years and for those parents that want to put your kids in daycare, you CAN'T unless they are vaccinated.

freemonttroll said on February 23, 2011 at 12:07 PM

Why would you not vaccinate your children? I know there's been a buzz in the past about a possible link between certain vaccines and autism, which has been debunked. If the main reason for not vaccinating is out of fear from other illness, then you must live in a bubble. There's far more dangers out there ready for our consumption. Remember the Shrek glasses from McDonald's which may have been contaminated with cadmium? Things like this, in my opinion, outweighs the possible risks from a vaccine.

gablestout said on February 23, 2011 at 10:10 AM

I disagree with spypappy's interpretation. To treat anyone so-long as it does not compromise other patients does not necessarily mean the new patient is a potential danger. It means that the doctor is bound to treat anyone, so long as treating that person does not put the other patients at risk, through neglect or contagion. If a parent does not wish to vaccinate their kids, that is their personal choice, but the modern Hippocratic oath requires the doctor to keep the health of all patients in consideration. If doctor has a "sick waiting room" (many do...ask), and the parents of a child with an airborne virus refuse to use it, then the doctor should refuse to see the patient. It is a private company. Now me, personally...my son gets his vaccinations when the doctor says so. He doesn't tell me how to do my job, and I picked him because I trust him to do his job.

plutonomics said on February 23, 2011 at 10:06 AM

I'm with the doctor. Vaccinate your kids you moron parents.

zosma said on February 23, 2011 at 10:00 AM

@bazwest I would like to see people who run their kids to the dr w/ every cold, sniffle and tummyache charged higher premiums. for every earache that a parent insists upon an RX for antibiotics. for every case of asthma or bronchitis...when the kid comes in reeking of cigarette smoke....charge those folks higher premiums. "In 2008 three babies who are too young to be vaccinated ended up getting measles from an unvaccinated child who had measles in the waiting room of their doctor's office. So when doctors refuse to bring in patients who are not vaccinated and have them in the waiting room, that is a very valid concern," said Ari Brown, MD., Pediatrician American Academy of Pediatrics." what about kids who havebeen vaccinated for chicken pox (or anything for that matter) and get the disease anyway....are they gonna keep them out of waiting rooms too?

quidproquote said on February 23, 2011 at 9:38 AM

@bazwest - That would be the simple thing to do but failing to immunize your children puts everyone elses children at risk. 94% of people need to be immunized to protect against whooping cough (which does kill, even today). A small % of people will be genuinely allergic to some ingredients and at that point is perfectly ok to not vaccinate for that specific disease. There is also the % that are babies that are too small for the vaccine yet and those children are the most at risk when someone walks into a waiting room with whooping cough and infects that baby then baby dies. Vaccinations are all about herd immunity.

bazwest said on February 23, 2011 at 9:24 AM

I like the idea of higher premiums for families who choose not to immunize their kids. Unimmunized kids are susceptible to diseases that could run up my healthcare costs and therefore my insurance premiums. I am all for freedom of choice but the parents who fail to immunize shouldn't be immunized from paying higher fees.

lsmith5870400119 said on February 23, 2011 at 9:21 AM

Spypappy You made the same comment I was going ,to but in a much more profound way. Good comment.

quidproquote said on February 23, 2011 at 9:12 AM

@collegeguy It is the doctors choice to refuse patients for failing to do a nearly ( I say nearly because there are some wack jobs out there for everything)universally recommended procedure. People who aren't vaccinated are a risk to everyone else. It destroys herd immunity and puts other patients at his practice in danger. Also: When you leave the hospital or doctor against the doctors advice you must sign an AMA waiver: Against Medical Advice to protect the doctor against lawsuits. By completely denying patients who refuse vaccination he is just removing a step in the process.

collegeguy said on February 23, 2011 at 8:57 AM

This doctor needs to get over himself. It is not his choice for his patients to get their kids vaccinated. And if one gets sick from something preventable, it is still his job to treat them regardless. If he can't handle the stress of seeing the consequences of his patients decisions, he is in the wrong field.

spypappy said on February 23, 2011 at 1:17 AM

‎" I will treat without exception all who seek my ministrations, so long as the treatment of others is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the counsel of particularly skilled physicians where indicated for the benefit of my patient." - Extracted from the Modern Hippocratic Oath. Does this mean he won't treat anyone ill with a viral disease? They are a definite threat to the health of his other patients whether they are vaccinated or not. I dictate my medical care and my childrens you are merely my advisor and service provider. Get over yourself.

xjcasper45736263 said on February 23, 2011 at 12:30 AM

Just a question to ponder... Is there any empirical or statistical data available to prove the reductions of bacterial meningitis (or any other disease for which the population is vaccinated) cases among vaccinated children vs non-vaccinated children?

lorineburnet said on February 23, 2011 at 12:17 AM

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